Full Game Leaderboards
7 years ago
United States

Hey everybody. Lately I've been putting a lot of thought and effort into figuring out what would be the most effective way to set up the full game leaderboards. I strongly feel that it is important for us to come up with a solution as soon as possible so that everybody feels that they have a place on the leaderboard. Standards are set very quickly and not easily changed. My goal is that nobody feels left out and nobody feels like they can't compete.

With the new Playstation and Xbox hitting the market very soon, there will be 4 different platforms that Final Fantasy 15 could be played on by the end of this year. With different platforms and different hardware, we will see significant variance in game performance and loading, and as a result certain platforms will be significantly faster than others. On top of dealing with the platform differences, there is also a large variance between Hard Disk Drives and Solid State Drives. If we were to not do anything about separating the platforms and everything was a free for all, people not on the fastest platform will feel left out and unable to compete. This makes for an unhealthy and unenjoyable environment for people who can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars to play on the fastest platform. With that said, I completely understand that there are people out there who want to see how fast a game can be beaten on the best hardware available, and are willing to foot a large bill if they can achieve a faster time.

Given all of that, I feel this is the most effective way for us to set up the leaderboards. We would create two categories. The first category would only allow Playstation 4 as well as only allowing Hard Disk Drive. The second category would be an "Anything goes" category. Runs could be submitted on either Playstation and any type of hard drive. We would also mirror this setup for Xbox, making for 4 categories in total. What I aim to accomplish by setting up the leaderboards this way is create categories in which everybody has a place they can compete against other runners on an even playing field.

Banning the use of specific platforms or hard drives certainly isn't the right way to go as some people will have access to these things and wish to use them, and at the same time it is important to not spoil the experience for those who can not afford to use the best hardware. Finding the perfect solution that makes everybody completely satisfied is practically impossible, but I do feel that setting up the leaderboards this way is as close to perfection as we can get. I look forward to reading your responses!

Edit: going to unsticky this thread as leaderboards have been put together nicely and this is no longer an issue.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Poitou-Charentes, France

Of course it's better to do 2 distinct categorie (3rd generation and 4th generation) wich contains NG and 100%(if someone is enought crazy for do it) But we could have a NG+, a Warpless, a Glitchless or other things like that So it can be too much if there is 8 main category Well we can only wait the release of the game and after, think about it

Edited by the author 7 years ago
United States

@GhostScit Glad to hear you're on board!

@Vulcairn I wouldn't worry about the categories you mentioned (NG+, Glitchless, 100%, etc). Those are all miscellaneous categories and likely won't be run much if at all.

One point I would like to address is a response that I've been consistently hearing for a little while now and I would like to give some insight into my thought process in regards to it. A response that I've heard a lot is "Wait until the game comes out, then think about it." Personally I feel that this is not the best way for us to go about things. While there are some variables we do have to consider that we won't know for sure until the game comes out, with information that we have we can very reliably determine how things are going to be within the game and the best course of action in regards to the leaderboards. As I touched on in my first paragraph, standards are set very quickly, so if we were to ignore the issue, whether ideal or not, a standard would form very quickly. Once a standard is set, people become used to that standard and are very unwilling to change from the standard they have come to know. So by using the information we have to come up with the most effective way for us to set up the leaderboards for everybody, we can create the best experience for everyone from the get go without nearly as much hastle as trying to change an unideal standard.

North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

alright here I come SoBayed

I understand the problem behind this and we should try to not make the Leaderboards messy. So is just gonna throw my idea in :D

First it would be interesting to know if there is a BIG time difference between the console like PS4/XBox1, if there isn't a big time difference i don't see a reason to separate these. Because too many categories doesn't seem right and too messy. If there is just a minor difference i would put them together (like for example KH 1.5 FM HD is splitted in different categories just because JP runs a bit faster (1minute~isch) then PAL/NTSC-U)

I would recommend something like the FF1 or FF10 Leaderboards where you have 2 Categories (first console then actually categorie --> any% // 100% // turtle% etc.) In that case i would setup for any% and 100% as main categories cause we don't know what the actual game is all about so we have to wait. For 100% we also have to wait cause we don't know what will be 100% OpieOP

Anyways 1 Main category for PS4 and one for XBox1 would be also fine, because they will be probably the main categories for everyone. At least for me OpieOP.

But yeah i hope you get me point SoBayed anyways as soon the game comes out i gonna hit it casual to see what its all about, make my notes and then we can start with routing SoBayed

TheOOT likes this
United States

@IndDragPack Thanks for the input!

I'd like to address some of your points.

I do agree that if the time difference between the platforms weren't very large (I would say within the realm of just a couple of minutes) that separating wouldn't be as important. However I think this is unlikely that the difference will be minimal. Having come from 13 trilogy and knowing there to be a significant difference between Playstation and Xbox. On top of that when we factor in potential hard drive changes, this gap becomes even larger, and then once we have both the new Playstation and Xbox into the mix, we will be looking at large amounts of variance between all of the platforms, hence why I feel it is important for us to create categories in which everyone can participate on an even playing field.

I don't think that it would look messy at all, in fact I think it would be rather clean looking and easy to follow. I checked out the two examples you gave, and to me it appeared that the Final Fantasy 1 leaderboards look very similar to the idea that I have in mind. The Final Fantasy 10 boards however I feel look quite messy as they have many arbitrary categories listed. I feel that the Final Fantasy 13-2 leaderboards are a good example of what the 15 leaderboards would look like if I am to set up the leaderboards with my proposed idea (http://www.speedrun.com/ff13-2#Any). It would simply be Any% ---> Platform/Platform/Platform/Platform. However the second category (by second I mean the second example I had given in my first post. The order isn't very important, the default that would be displayed likely would be whichever category has the most participants. We could also opt to show the fastest category as the default as well, or simply leave it in a more organized order. Anything works really, whatever the community feels is best.) can't exactly be titled as a platform as it is mostly being defined by the hardware that is allowed to be used within the category. My solution to this would be to set up the categories as follows: Any% ---> Playstation/Playstation +/Xbox/Xbox +. The Playstation category would only allow Playstation 4 and Hard Disk Drive. Playstation + would allow the use of any platform and any hard drive (PS4, PS4.5, HDD, and SSD.) And as stated previously, this would be mirrored for Xbox. The end result I feel would look very clean and the rules would be clearly defined and stated making it easy to follow and understand.

I hope this gives more insight into my ideas for the leaderboard and look forward to more discussion!

Indi likes this
North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

I get your point. I would say just try to "create" the Leaderboards in the way you mentioned so people have a more visual way how it looks like SoBayed The game isn't out yet so we have time to experiment 4Head But the point i don't quite get is "The Playstation category would only allow Playstation 4 and Hard Disk Drive. Playstation + would allow the use of any platform and any hard drive (PS4, PS4.5, HDD, and SSD.)" so there will be like 2 Categories for PS4/HDD, the default one and the AG? Doesn't make sense to me :p Also you going to plan to put the "Demo" Run's into miscellaneous?

Anyways good work so far. Looking forward to begin with the "real" work OpieOP

TheOOT likes this
United States

What I mean by "Playstation + would allow the use of any platform and any hard drive" is that any combination could be used. For example Playstation 4 with an SSD would be categorized as a Playstation + run, or Playstation 4.5 with an HDD would be categorized as Playstation +. Whereas a run done on a PS4 with an HDD would be categorized as a Playstation run. My intention is that there would be one category where you could run on the minimum hardware and compete on an even playing field with other runners, but still leaving the possibility to use the better hardware if a runner would like to. Hopefully that clarifies my phrasing :)

Edit: Forgot to mention the demo leaderboards. As far as they go, for the time being I am not sure. When the discussion came up before, some people were in favor of scrapping them altogether as they won't be relevant when the full game releases, and others seemed to want to keep them around. For the time being I don't think it's a dire issue, so we still have some time to figure out what's best for the demo leaderboards :)

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Indi likes this
North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

Okay now i got it thanks for pointing that out for me :) Makes actually sense, since PS4 HDD will be the main category, at least for me :D even i have to prepare my stream setup for this, but i have 2 months left so no hurry OpieOP

TheOOT likes this
United States

Hey everyone. Posting to provide an update on the direction that we were looking to go in for the leaderboards as it is slightly different than my initially proposed idea. After getting together with some of the moderators, we decided it would be best to separate each of the 4 available platforms to begin with, as well as the two difficulty options once the game officially launches and we confirm them. (It is very obvious that there will be easy mode and normal mode, but it would be better to wait and confirm.) As far as hard drives, we are going to be looking to do some timing comparisons very shortly after release to figure out how significant the time advantage is. In the case we feel the time advantage is enough to spoil the competitive integrity at the top level of runners, we will be be separating HDD from SSD.

United States

I like it Oot man. So whens the trifecto getting back to start this routing of ffxv :p

TheOOT likes this
United States

Pods confirmed back :D

United States

Let the fun begin :D

Also Wall clipping still seems to be a thing, But working on finding some spots for this. I have been able to get the game to reset my position twice already. But not fall through ground.

It does seem FPS depentent, but using R2 and O you can go by frame.

Nonstop_Bop likes this
Kentucky, USA

Gonna do an easy any% run on Monday, will stream it. I'm really new to speedrunning but wanted to start with this, so assuming there's no other runs by then would I hold the WR til it is, I assume, easily broken?

United States

Lets be honest Kappa, I know your new to Speedrunning (and i hope you stick with it) but really there wont be people who will submit there runs or worry about this all until a proper route is found. Running through the game at this point is just seeing how fast you can beat the game by going from point a to b with not much (if any) though given to a route. Only useful to find a baseline of how long the run will be. Which we know about 7 hours now.

What is really needed now is productive use of finding a route for this game. This does mean going through just about everything in the game to optimize a route, Items, Weapons, etc etc to buy/get. It takes awhile. Cause we all could just put our casual% time on here and call it WR, But that would silly KappaPride

But seriously glad there is a lot of interest in this game :D and im happy to see new speed-runners becoming interested. So just enjoy what we have now till we get the sub 3 dream lol.

CptPuff likes this
Kentucky, USA

Thanks for the info, I'll go on and do a casual run/stream though just to see what the time looks like. I won't submit it unless someone else puts up a "casual" runnas well. When it comes to discussing the route, would we do that here, or is there a more dedicated place for that?

United Kingdom

For the route discussions, there's a discord server where that kind of stuff is taking place, you can check it out here: http://www.speedrun.com/ffxv/thread/cow4s

United States

Posting to provide an update on recent leaderboard changes and the direction we will likely be going forward with. As of today, I cleaned up the leaderboards a little bit to make them look better after hearing some feedback that they looked a bit messy. Previously the platforms were set as subcategories as well as the difficulties, but I now changed it so the platforms are full game categories and the difficulties are subcategories. Leaderboard functions exactly the same, just looks much cleaner this way. Dealing with Hard Drives moving forward, we are likely going to leave them as a variable rather than a subcategory. If we were to add hard drives as a subcategory, the leaderboard would be very cluttered with way too many categories, and we would run into this scenario where many people are all running one different category and little competition would be had between anyone as everyone would be split up into their own category.