Forums  /  Excitebike (NES)  /  POSSIBLE RNG TIME SAVE?
  jaredbjaredb

Hey guys, I think I may have found a way to save time on our runs. After much testing, I found that as you press start to play a track, a random thing is assigned to you that determines either your max speed or acceleration. I ran track one several time, only pressing b, and got times that varied as much as 9 seconds. Now, If I saved and loaded right after I press start, I can get the same track time every attempt while Only pressing b. This makes me think that there is RNG assigned when you press start to select a level. If we can find a way to control this, we could potentially save seconds on WR runs as well as make our times more consistent in general.

Here is a link to the video of my testing:

Let me know if you find ANYTHING. Thanks.

 
  AndrewGAndrewG

Depending on when you press start can affect the initial acceleration which causes slight differences in finishing times. As far as I know, you can gain 2-3 frames with a lucky start. I also think there is a way to accelerate in a more efficient manner than just holding "B" the whole time (which gains a few frames). I don't think there's any real way to control the starting difference to always have good RNG, and I never tried better acceleration by pressing "B" at a very specific point because it messed up the "TEMP" gauge in certain tracks. However, I think tracks 1, 2, and 5 could use this for a slight time save... I don't know what the exact start method is that gains time, but it's minor.

I essentially ignored both of these factors since the times have never been like other games with individual levels in the fact that huge time gains can be made even on pretty optimal times with better bouncing and whatnot. Potentially, the times will reach a point where two runners have times milliseconds apart ( 😉 ) that require good RNG, but I'm not sure that will realistically happen because of how much the speed varies and how much it affects the overall times.

I think the reason for this is because the game only registers inputs every 3 frames (if I remember right) and so depending on when you press start, the first "B" press that actually moves the bike might fall .04 seconds into the race. I think there might be a little more to it as to how it affects the outcomes in the races. There are some Excitebike TASers who could explain it more, because I don't fully. However, I've always felt the savings was too minimal to bother finding out. And if I ever got to a point where I wasn't improving my times, I would look into it 😃

Glad you're researching it though, I would be interested in knowing exactly what's up. I haven't tested things for this game in years and years.

 
  AndrewGAndrewG

I think track 2 would be the only track where we could realistically get "perfect" times in a sense. However, if you could find a way to consistently save frames, that would of course be useful knowledge. I would look into the optimal time to press "B," because I'm pretty sure that is a time savings we could use.

I think as far as the RNG, we're probably out of luck trying to make it consistent. However, I'd love you to prove me wrong.

 
  jaredbjaredb

OK, that makes sense, but I believe there is definitely something about max speed or acceleration we don't know. (I may make a video of this to better explain), but in track 1, you always go off 2 of the 3 acceleration ramps, and there are times where I will obtain "fast speed" after going only off the first ramp, and make it just past the big hill after the second ramp, but there are also times that I don't gain "fast speed" until after the second ramp, but I go way past the big hill. Following logic that we know, if we have "fast speed" and go off a ramp, we should land further, with more speed, than if we don't have "fast speed" and go off that same ramp in the same way. And there aren't any bounces in between the landing off the first ramp and the landing after the hill, so I shouldn't lose speed between those two points. This may be a coincidence or just some weird thing, but I really want to investigate. I just wanted to put the information out so people can just watch for it and see if they find anything.

But I'll also look into the "perfect start" thing. It won't be much time save, but it is a timesave. And that is what speedrunnign is all about 😉 Thanks for the help andrew.

 
  AndrewGAndrewG

Maybe I should make a good tutorial to explain what I do know. This is I think how it works:

1) The longer the air time, the faster the bike speed
2) The faster the bounce, the faster the bike speed

Long air times are gained by switching down a lane while going off a triangular (speed) ramp. This lengthens the distance you can cover. Switching up a land while going off a triangular jump shortens the length of your jump, which is not practical for speed but for positioning.

The faster your "left" press when bouncing after going off a speed jump, the faster your bike will travel.

There are definitely things I still don't know about the game though. I know holding forward gains time off ramps, but there can be ways to gain small amounts of time (maybe it's all about the bounces?). I've always felt that the ideal method is to be on the ground as long as possible and always hold forward when going off ramps... I think ideally, you would want to do perfect lands (holding forward) instead of bouncing each time. Hard to explain everything I mean properly without using video or pictures.

Basically:
- I think you want to lean the bike all the way forward every time you go off a ramp.
- After going off a ramp, land on the ground without bouncing if possible (leaned all the way forward)
- Switch down a lane while going off the triangular (speed) ramps for maximum distance (air time and speed).
- When bouncing after going off the triangular ramps, press "left" for as little time as possible when landing and continue to do so from that point onward.

 
  jaredbjaredb

I pretty much have the same conclusions about speed as you. Speed is gained by holding forward and holding b of ramps etc... So I'm wondering if it really is all about the bounce. I wonder if you can obtain "fast speed" and then lose speed on the bounce while still maintaining the engine sounds associated with "fast speed." Same thing vice versa. I will look into the bounce as well. See if maybe there is even a way to land with no bounce or try to route it so you always land on the back of a hill. It might work on a few tracks.