Since we've got a larger pool of runners to chime in on this, it's a good time to ask.
Would people like to see the 3 categories be NG and NG+ variants of Glitched, 'Glitchless' and Pure runs? [So all in all, 6 categories. 7 including 100% which we will keep as Glitched.]
Glitched: Any and all glitches allowed from the current patch of the game.
Glitchless: Disallows "gamebreaking" glitches - Wallclip, Gravity Fling, Megajump. || Allows Curveboost, Superjump.
Pure: Disallows all glitches including Curveboost, Superjump and any future glitches that may be found [after discussion.]
\o/ <3
Also "pure" was more of a placeholder name. I realize it sounds a bit elitist, as though the run is "better" than the others, which is completely unintended (I still love watching new glitchless WR's). If you guys think of a better name, I'm all for it!
"True glitchless" ? Or maybe "Intended" (but it sounds strange as a category name). Something to say that's the run is done as the devs designed the game, without glitchs / tricks they didn't think about.
But anyway as stated in another thread, i guess it's a good idea. Some players seem to want to run the game in this category.
Btw atm Glitchless allow way more than just Curveboost & Superjump (dashjump, cornerboost (similar to curveboost), wall fling/flip, and now elevator skip o/, and more maybe later) but that's not a problem since only the forbidden glitchs / tricks are listed in the rules (Edit : Well permitted stuff are also indicated, so they may be incomplete).
I guess this new category will need to be clear about what is allowed or not. To me i had in mind (cf. my message above) that anything in the gameplay designed by the devs would be allowed and all the other stuff prohibited. So any projection like the elevator skip or the wall flip/skip/fling wouldn't be allowed, as long as almost everything.
It's already been discussed in others threads but afaik i don't think anything has been stated clearly yet. I saw in the run of Azaraki (ng+ glitchless atm in 15:28) some dashjumps and he was considering it'd be okay as "pure" run. He's one of the runners who wanted this category so feel free to tell us what you'd like to be able to do in this kind of run :p.
am I the only one thinking it's better changing the name of the actual glitchless by something else, and use glitchless for glitchless run? I think using glitchless for a catégorie using glitch could be confusing for people who don't run the game
The requierment for the elevator glitch (landing on the elevator with a dash) make me thinks that looks like a glitch.
I agree with Zigouigoui. The name of the current glitchless must be changed and "pure" rename "glitchless". We must always find a name for the current "glitchless" -_-
"The requierment for the elevator glitch (landing on the elevator with a dash) make me Thinks That looks like a glitch." I agree, but I was referring to the elevator skip. it uses no glitch, only [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=197oSsJXpms/]this trick[/url] added to the speed of the platform. But i thinks Harest is right : "any projection like the elevator skip or the wall flip/skip/fling wouldn't be allowed" So, "rocket dash trick" glitch ?
Also, I do not think that we should not refer to the developers approves. The game being doing for speedrun, I would not be surprised if the superjump was intensional.
my opinion, Actual Pure : -Disallows all glitches (Curve/corner boost, super/mega jump, elevator glitch, elevator skip, wallclip, wallfling, gravity fling, any projection) and "rocket second jump against wall" trick, rocketdash trick. -Allows jump, dash, rocket jump, dash into jumpad, dashjump. (I refer to [url=https://youtu.be/r3VMeB7s9UM/]the run[/url] of Azaraki)
edit : I don't know why the link does not work
I don't have any real opinion on which bugs make sense to allow in a "pure" run. I would say that it would make the most sense for Azaraki to define them, given that he's the only one to do a run so far.
I agree that the current "glitchless" category is badly named -- I've always called it "Any% no mega no clip". That doesn't have a good ring to it, but at least it's accurate. Perhaps just "Any% no major skips", with a major skip being defined as the use of a wallclip or megajump.
One of my hesitations about changing the "glitchless" category name is that so many runners have already used that, and they'd have to change the titles on their Youtube videos, which is a kinda funny logistical problem to have if you think about it xD; but if that's what makes the most sense to you guys, then I'm all for it. I don't have much of an opinion on the naming system.
As for the definitions, that seems like the hard part. I know that boosting into a jump pad is not considered a "dashboost" if you don't hold it for very long, but at what point does it become a dashboost? The glitches writeup describes it as, "Jump right before dashing into a jumpad and keep your dash a bit longer than normally to gain extra height." I haven't tested it out extensively yet, but if there's a point where your height jumps up (like a step-discontinuity), rather than a linear/exponential relation, then it's probably cool to rule it out. On the other hand, it doesn't feel right or fun to make a category that forces you to actively try not to perform what might be a glitch, especially to newer runners. It's easy to accidentally use a dashjump.
The other problem I see is accidental cornerboost. If you're dashing across a flat surface, and there's a bump that doesn't look like it exists, you unintentionally cornerboost (Though, honestly, it's faster if you dash in the air anyway). The only real time I've experienced this is on The Tower, on the long, flat surface that holds the Spark, since you usually get on top of the block from the far left and the Spark/checkpoint is on the right side. Should be okay as long as it's not used to advance.
By all means, weigh in on this, though! I want the run to be fun for as many people as it can be, not just myself, so other opinions are great!
Dashboosting happens as soon as you hit a jump pad while holding dash -- the longer you hold it, the higher you go, but any amount of dash use after hitting it will give you extra height. It would be ridiculous to invalidate a run based on an accidental tiny dashboost that doesn't change the route, so you could approach this by banning "high" dashboosts and overlooking tiny ones that don't change the route, or you could just allow them.
Regarding accidental slope boosts, either you can allow slope boosts in their entirety (making the category no super/no mega/no clip/no fling/no elevator?), or you could ban them and state that a run is not invalidated by accidental slope boosts if they're not used to save time.
I'm torn on the dashboosting stuff. There are some dashboosts that skip a decent amount of stuff, but I also don't want to force people to put active thought into staying in the rules for the run. I guess it would be pretty easy to see whether or not it gives you enough height to change the route, but that would be getting into some sorts of arbitrary distinctions, where the "glitch" is allowed based on how much of the game it skips. I'd probably go full out "yes" or "no" on this one, but I'm not sure which one I'd go for.
For curve boosts, let's go with the latter, "ban them and state that a run is not invalidated by accidental slope boosts if they're not used to save time."
This is just what I'm thinking, feel free to input any of your own opinions.
I'm thinking about jump made into a corner of two wall to gain extra high are glitched jump or normal one? look like something glitched, i don't know what your thinking on that?
Also : "ban them and state that a run is not invalidated by accidental slope boosts if they're not used to save time." seems to be best to do!
I kinda made up my mind on the dashboosting thing. I think it's cool if it doesn't change the route. It should be pretty easy to tell if someone holds the dash out for height. Simply dashing into a jump pad should be fine.
Any idea when we'll see this? I'm 3 seconds off sub15 for NG+, I'll update my time as soon as I hit that goal!
EDIT: Did the sub15 for NG+ and working on sub20 for Reset.
Going to update glitchless category into "No Wall Clip + Mega Jump", and make new Pure Glitchless [No glitches at all]. Let me know what you all think.
Updated. Azaraki, your Pure run has been moved from Glitchless NG+ to Pure NG+.
Categories are now:
Pure NG Any% Pure NG+ NWNM [No Wallclip No Mega] NG Any% NWNM NG+ Glitched NG Glitched NG+ Glitched 100%
Many thanks! I'm going to try to make SGDQ if I can, so hopefully that works and can get more people running the game.
