Donkey Kong 64 Forum  /  Submission
  defqon_Jandefqon_Jan

so...if something like this ( https://www.speedrun.com/run/y8qx621y ) happens to be in my notifications as "wr beaten", does it mean, this LB doesn't force video-proof? you guys think, that'd be a good idea? i mean, how many people will try to cheat them a wr? even if it only lasts for a few hours...you can screenshot it and show all your i-net friends how great you are? i would put this measure in place...

 
  theballaam96theballaam96
(edited: )

This leaderboard doesn't force video proof, however it's always suggested and heavily advised that you have a capture card when you start getting further and further up the leaderboard.

The only time a WR has happened with no video is when a time is fake. And if a time is fake, it's often spotted quickly and removed by the mods. Fake runs are also somewhat rare, so it's clearly not a large amount of people trying to cheat a WR

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  JumpyluffJumpyluff

It doesn't help that the game doesn't require verification surely? With 12 mods, I'm sure you could figure a system where runs are looked over like most other pages.

 
  BismuthBismuth
(edited: )

Requiring verification and/or video is something we don't want to implement. We want the community to be as open and approachable as possible. We don't want people to think that because they don't own a capture card, they aren't allowed in the restricted club of speedrunners. There is already a widespread idea that the first thing you need to figure out when you think about speedrunning is buying recording equipment, and I think that is one of the most backwards and ridiculous ways to think about speedrunning.

As for problems we encounter, there is only one, and that is people trying to teach us that we have a problem by submitting fake WRs. Here's the thing: they are proving to us that we have a problem by being the problem. When no one is trying to show how much smarter than us they are and how much better they know, everything is fine.

That being said, by trying to show how bad this system is, they ultimately show how efficient it actually is. Nobody goes through the effort of submitting elaborately cheated runs because they can just post their time. As a result, fake runs are incredibly easy to spot and prune, and we've never had an issue with them. No fake time has ever stayed up longer than a few hours.

As for notifications, well, I guess it is a good point that it's a bit annoying to get a notification for a fake time. However, I am more than ready to take one notification about a fake run once every year or two, rather than force people to get recording tools just to try a new way to have fun with their favourite game.

SSGeorgieSSGeorgie, NamajnaGNamajnaG and 4 others like this. 
  JumpyluffJumpyluff

Good response, I agree. Just wanted to play devil's advocate with my comment. I got the notification too and that's the only real effect it has.

 
  2dos2dos

I've been talking to PAC to implement a system where only a WR run would need to be verified but nothing has come of it yet

SSGeorgieSSGeorgie and defqon_Jandefqon_Jan like this. 
  MrsGizamalukeMrsGizamaluke

It is possible to require verification and at the same time not require video proof. If the problem would grow larger, that could be a solution as well.

JumpyluffJumpyluff and MenstiloMenstilo like this. 
  defqon_Jandefqon_Jan

Yeah, you're right @Bismuth...my major-point wasn't the notification, but another question: How do you reject runs THEN, if you don't have the video as a decision. I'm totally in, that the community should be free and open. But how to determine cheatos then? You see..?

 
  2dos2dos

The mods have a round table to determine it. All of us are familiar with what times are possible at what skill levels so if a submitted time is found to be suspect it is brought up and discussed with all mods.

FalconXFalconFalconXFalcon and defqon_Jandefqon_Jan like this. 
  defqon_Jandefqon_Jan
(edited: )

so, if falcon, connor, you, cfox etc. insert a time not far off of a previous pb, it'll go through, but if a new runner would get (even if not an impossible time but first entry) wr without proof, then you'll regard it as deception...right?

 
  JumpyluffJumpyluff

No, mods don't get a free pass on runs like that. If 2dos submits a time even 10 minutes better than his 101% pb without a video it would be suspicious especially given his history of having recorded runs in the past. Each situation is case-by-case probably.

SSGeorgieSSGeorgie likes this. 
  defqon_Jandefqon_Jan

yeah, thats what i just said? "not far off of a previous pb"

 
  JumpyluffJumpyluff

Even if he submits a time 30 seconds better, it's still out of place considering his history with having his runs streamed and recorded, so I would expect it to be treated with suspicion. Again, each case is different.

 
  BismuthBismuth

We can spend hours debating hypothetical cases but what matters is that the system in place works well. The day it will stop functioning will be a sad one, because it will mean that a large number of people maliciously abused the system and abused our trust in people's goodwill.

defqon_Jandefqon_Jan, 2dos2dos and 2 others like this.