Resetting the leaderboards would suck for sure, but if you come with solid rule changes, that might be a way to go, however that should happen only if something big happens to the game itself (e.g. remaster happen and the client get merged with the new one, or some big patch appears for the old client along with the remaster).
RTA vs IGT - IGT is usually a way to go, but that's to decide when you create a game's category, I don't think we need more of them. I think @Bender_Bender_ really nailed it about the IGT stuff. I think it's easier for people to run RTA when it comes to setting the recording etc., on RTA you don't even need Livesplit or anything.

About that -ns stuff - it saves time, but also you might be unaware of some things during the game (e.g. far/offscreen drops that you usually don't see, but hear).
I personally do some of my runs offstream and I just listen to music/talk on Discord during them, and if I the new rule would be "runs have to be recorded with audio", that would be problematic for me to set, and would invalidate some runs too (if the leaderboard stays the same).

I think that's more of a casual opinion/point of view about that stuff. That's interesting topic and discussion, can't wait to see the outcome.


I'm personally gonna move forward with Ryu's plan here. It just makes sense to me personally. I was never a fan of the jail strat, forcing the rng in specific areas to get the fastest run. Having the maps be random on save/exit makes it feel like the d2 I played my entire life anyways. IGT- solves the no sound/sound debate instantly...and is like 3 clicks in livesplit. If you don't want to add extra steps, like having livesplit in the first place, then I understand...but you're probably not worried about any of this time argument to begin with in that case.

(edited: )

So after thinking about this issue a little more I have another solution for this problem:

We could make the script only remove the time between Save and Quit and the Main menu.
All the opening door sequences could (loading screens) would stay in the game.

I think with this as a solution, retireing all the existing runs to a legacy archive can be avoided aswell.
And it will resolve the issue of -ns being faster, since the opening door sequence are extremly consistant even without using it.

It also resolves the issue of using tcp/ip for coin flip waypoint hopping into new areas.

To make the TCP/IP loading screen consistant, there is also the option to make that loading screen result in a FIX number of seconds on the timer rather then a semi inconsistant 8-10 seconds or whatever the average might be.

I just wanted to add this here to give you guys the opportunity to think about this option. I think this might keep the balance of making most ppl happy here.

Looking at it right now - this would only require a retiming of Indrek's 1:00:40 because that is a Jail map run with sound.

91RelaX91RelaX, BokserKabatyBokserKabaty and MekalbMekalb like this. 

@Teo-Teo- This would be my preferable way to IGT to be measured. If this is a simple change to the script, let's make it happen.

TCP/IP should be part of your run time because it's part of the gamble for a better map. The thing which can be argued is "unfair" is when the game decides that you need to wait 5 seconds between S&E.

BokserKabatyBokserKabaty and MekalbMekalb like this. 

@Teo-Teo- submit -ns runs, or ban them all. When some run are confirmed and some are not, this is a very problematic situation

(edited: )

I'll give a tl;dr on my thoughts:

A "No Sound" speedrun would be stupidly boring to watch. I wouldn't. I know I'm not alone on that. If "No Sound" is allowed to just be merged into the existing speedruns or if the old runs are archived and a new leaderboard made, it's just going to force people to run "No Sound" or quit competing. That's pretty shitty. Either way it will really wreak havoc on people who stream on Twitch for a living and who play D2 as a large portion of their content.

Addendum: The more I think about it, the more I realize that things like -ns and forcing people to have to reroll maps endlessly just to find the lucky RNG with a jail farming WP (or forcing people to play only on a specific seed which just takes away the soul of what D2 is) is just anti-fun at this point. You're taking away anything fun about running this game in a competitive category just for the sake of a few more minutes off of the timer in a way that feels artificial and sterile. I've read over this thread. Ryu's ideas seem to make the most sense to me.

vtlmksvtlmks likes this. 
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