Forums  /  Diablo II: Lord of Destruction  /  2 Thoughts on the hardcore category
  IllimitusIllimitus

1) what is the objection to running a game softcore and then considering it hardcore if the player doesn't die?

2) Has anyone timed a hardcore / no save and exit continuous run?

 
  CaracarnViCaracarnVi

even if you don't die in softcore, you would generally not be playing as safe, since you know that it is not hardcore. So there is still a difference in play style that affects the times.

Now on the other hand, if someone gets a better time on Hardcore than a Softcore run, then that could be considered regular any% as well as HC any%

I actually notice that on the rules for any% it says "Must be done on softcore." Honestly, I think that if someone has a PB or WR that is done on hardcore it should be considered any%, though Hardcore runs are almost always slower, so I'm not sure how much of an issue that really is anyway.

zalo248zalo248 likes this. 
  Teo-Teo-

to 1) you wont convince anyone to check each and every softcore run towards deaths. noone has that much time. 😉
Also Caracarn has a fair point in difference of playstile (allthough i dont think thats a huge thing)
The real big difference is the death strats at the Baalwaves to pull them out (saves a lot of time depending on the char)

to 2) not that I know of. That would be an entirely different categorie that is also really hard to check. (again noone will have the time to check full 1.5-4hour runs for save & quits.

@CaracarnVi Everyone was asking for a seperate categorie for HC so there is no real reason to mix them together just because they are potentioally better. That is one of the major issues I had to implement the HC categorie seperatly in the first place.

 
  LaVLaV

The hardcore players wanted to be seperated from the softcore players, thats why I added the seperate categories instead of having them both in one ladder with the gamemode-variable.

If hardcore-characters on Battle.net are in front of softcore-characters on the ladder they do not show up in the softcore ladder either. It is different gamemodes.

We could go a different way and make it "deathless" and "with deaths" which would made it way harder to verify new runs and it would require us to check all old softcore runs from deaths.

If I see a SC run submitted as HC or a HC run submitted as SC I have to assume the runner made a genuine mistake and accidentally submitted his run for the wrong category.

Safe & Exit is a different issue: Due to the nature of the game you have to safe and exit sometimes during Hell runs.
All Diablo 2 runs are RTA runs because of that.
Technically you could probably say "you may only use safe and exit after killing baal but then you would have to enforce some other rules aswell (like not starting to rescue anya after killing baal and using the safe & exit as free chicken when you fail). Also only using the red portal would be a possibility but its not always accessible and it takes forever for Tyrael to hover down.
Also "No Safe-&-Exit" runs would be way slower and was more luck dependant (TalEth first countess run or reset) and I do not know if people would like that very much.

 
  CaracarnViCaracarnVi

ok, when you make the comparison to the ladders being separate, I can see that makes more sense then.

 
  zalo248zalo248

"Now on the other hand, if someone gets a better time on Hardcore than a Softcore run, then that could be considered regular any% as well as HC any%

I actually notice that on the rules for any% it says "Must be done on softcore." Honestly, I think that if someone has a PB or WR that is done on hardcore it should be considered any%, though Hardcore runs are almost always slower, so I'm not sure how much of an issue that really is anyway."

Exactly! HC runs should land into the Any% category too if they are faster (not in SC category, just Any%) and with Indrek's ground-breaking skills they can pretty much always be faster cuz he barely ever cares about dying.

If I had 20 categories where I would attempt to get a WR, it just doesn't make sense to repeat the exact same thing and do it all 40 times, with additional parachutes tied to you. It's completely pointless. I can really see how absurd it must be for Indrek to do the same thing twice, get an insane WR on HC difficulty, and see some sort of SC run being slower, and shown first by default to people.

If you just let his HC runs cover the SC/Any% ones by default, we would all save him so much time, and you would have far greater, far more spectacular HC WRs from him by this point.

btw, there is far greater pleasure of watching a sick HC run than SC one anyway.

MoJlodostMoJlodost likes this.