Diablo II: Lord of Destruction Forum  /  Disable run verification (Locked)
  ŚlimoŚlimo

There's tons of speedgames, even much bigger ones, that don't have this system and i haven't ever seen any problems on these sites, not sure why it has to be different here. We have to wait over a week for someone to kindly click one button, even though there's just few submits, it's ridiculous. I see a lot of confusion in these periods because of this useless system. Disable it and if you will want to actually start moderating, just remove what you find wrong later, not the other way around, everyone will gain from that.

sfsf likes this. 
  gaiacheckgaiacheck

it's ridiculous sometimes, I had run verified while video had 0 views lol. Quality moderating. I'd say there should be something like "verified speedrunner" rather than some lazy mods.

 
  EwilEwil

The point of verifying runs is to caught cheaters, wrong last split, bad video quality, etc. If you think it's just clicking one button, you are damn wrong, unless the mods are really lazy.

Accepting run after a week is quite normal. Remember that mods do this voluntarily in their free time.

There have also been cased when some trolls submitted fake runs that claimed to be a WR. Mods would have seen through it.

DvD_01DvD_01 likes this. 
  LaVLaV

What Ewil said is correct, we're not watching the full videos and make sure theres not the slightest thing wrong with it - we're making sure the time is correct, the class is correct, the category is correct, the submitted video is not just a full VOD but a proper highlight of the successful attempt.

People accidentally submit runs in the wrong (default) category quite often and we have to reject runs that have like an hour of failed attempts in the beginning on a regular basis.

Yes, we could really be faster and I would love to add some more verifiers, but I straight up didn't have anyone ask me for it yet.

 
  Teo-Teo-

There is multiple things you need to concider here slimo

a) you can try and pressure us as much as you want - we do the verifications (as Ewil correctly states) in our free time and only when we have time for it. If that means you have to wait a week or 2 then that is just how it is.

😎 you have put us into an extremly akward position with your statement when you took your time out
I dont want to add any drama - but you can be happy that you even get accepted in the firstplace after that move. It completly disrupted parts of this community and is still stuck in my mind at the very least!

 
  ŚlimoŚlimo

It's all useless. If someone has added run to wrong category then they will notice it instantly after submition when they see it in wrong category and can just edit it out by themselves. Why does it have to be highlight? I see tons of full vods with just stated timestamps around, not sure what's the problem here. All that pointless "work" is just making everyone wait a week+.
"There have also been cased when some trolls submitted fake runs that claimed to be a WR" - whatever, if that happens once every five years then mod can remove it, altough i've never seen it on speedrun sites that i follow.
Even most popular speedruns like some marios that have verifications on with hundreds of runs per month get them done pretty much the very same day. It's literally two minutes to check everything even if you actually want to look if class and time are right. Having to wait over a week for that when you have few per week is more than laughable - "We do it in free time", well the thing is that you pretty much don't do it and If you still don't wish to do it, disable it.
"You can be happy that you even get accepted", hahaha, good joke, you just have no choice here.

sfsf likes this. 
  EwilEwil

"It's all useless. If someone has added run to wrong category then they will notice it instantly after submition when they see it in wrong category and can just edit it out by themselves."

Obviously you have no experience with this, because that's not how it works and never will. I can't even remember how many runs I had to reject because the runner didn't even read the rules, so hoping that everyone would fix their mistakes is very naive.

"Why does it have to be highlight?"

If it's not highlighted on twitch, it will be deleted after 40? days iirc, thus wasting everyone's time.

""There have also been cased when some trolls submitted fake runs that claimed to be a WR" - whatever, if that happens once every five years then mod can remove it, altough i've never seen it on speedrun sites that i follow."

Maybe you should visit this website more often, because there were literally dozens of fake runs submitted by "Todd Rogers" on 1st April. I think I also recall someone just recently submitting fake 0:01 run to Spelunky any% and it got through because the game didn't require verification back then (it does now).

"Even most popular speedruns like some marios that have verifications on with hundreds of runs per month get them done pretty much the very same day. It's literally two minutes to check everything even if you actually want to look if class and time are right. Having to wait over a week for that when you have few per week is more than laughable - "We do it in free time", well the thing is that you pretty much don't do it and If you still don't wish to do it, disable it."

This highly depends on how mods verify runs. For example I always watch the whole footage, often with 4x speed, but it still takes some time to do. If mods just check basic stuff like proper category and timer, then it can be accepted the same day for sure. If they are more thorough, especially when it's potentially a new WR, you have to wait a few more extra days. Deal with it.

"You can be happy that you even get accepted", hahaha, good joke, you just have no choice here.

Mods can easily reject your runs based on your history and yes, you should be happy.

DvD_01DvD_01, LaVLaV and 2 others like this. 
  ŚlimoŚlimo

It's you treating people like idiots if you think they wouldn't instantly fix the error they are able to see on leaderboard just after submitting, you just wasted your and runner's time whenever you had to verify their run - happened to me as well.
Are you seriously making 1st april jokes an argument? Other than that who cares if there will be one troll even few times a year who submits one run to delete. It's not a reason to make everyone wait a week+ and actual mods would delete it the very same day just as they would verify anyway.
It all can be done after submission, if they want to see run, they can do it after it's submitted, that's the whole point of this thread, why do i have to repeat myself?
And no, if they would reject any of my runs then this site becomes completly useless because of simply not being legit with mods cheating and if someone is making my "history" an argument then they're just a real life asshole. Oh wait, i forgot that we've already found out that you treat others like idiots, so no surprise.

I start to feel like someone just wants to feel more important than they are with these verifications, lol

sfsf likes this. 
  EwilEwil

"It's you treating people like idiots if you think they wouldn't instantly fix the error they are able to see on leaderboard just after submitting, you just wasted your and runner's time whenever you had to verify their run - happened to me as well."

Like I said, people often don't even read rules. What makes you think these kind of people will fix the mistakes they did when submitting a run? This is a real fact based on my and other mods experience. People make mistakes, period.

"Are you seriously making 1st april jokes an argument?"

Like I said, it was not just 1st April jokes. It actually happens regularly that someone submits a fake run. I once had to deal with a guy who submitted a new WR to NFS3 leaderboards while the footage was actually from NFS4 (both games share the same cars and tracks). And he did it twice. If that isn't stupid, I don't know what is...

"Other than that who cares if there will be one troll even few times a year who submits one run to delete. It's not a reason to make everyone wait a week+ and actual mods would delete it the very same day just as they would verify anyway."

Who cares? Most mods on this site do 🙂 Let's not make speedrun.com turn into TG. Let me ask you a question, why exactly is such a big deal for you to wait one week for your run to be verified? Please explain it so I can better understand why are we even having this conversation. Also, isn't it better to prevent fake runs to be submitted in the first place instead of fixing it after the "damage" has been done?

"And no, if they would reject any of my runs then this site becomes completly useless because of simply not being legit with mods cheating and if someone is making my "history" an argument then they're just a real life asshole. Oh wait, i forgot that we've already found out that you treat others like idiots, so no surprise."

Ever heard of "Once a liar, always a liar?" I don't exactly know your history, but I did read some twitter post about you saying you cheated in your D2 runs, and now you returned and got WR again by a quite margin compared to 2nd place. Personally, I would be extra careful when verifying a run from someone who already proved himself he cannot be trusted. And yes, your history actually makes a valid argument in this conversation, because I could easily think myself "Hmm okay, this guy cheated before and now he wants to remove run verification. Is it because he wants to submit more cheated runs, hoping that mods will be lazy and won't check it afterwards? I wonder."

Maybe I have trust issues (which I probably do), but I've already had to deal with a few cheaters and even though they probably never cheated again once they got caught, there is always some chance they did, but nobody noticed it, because the cheater was much more careful and avoided the mistakes that got him caught.

ZabaZaba, MisterMunkkiMisterMunkki and TehArckTehArck like this. 
  ŚlimoŚlimo

what damage? Just notify that person to change/remove run, no idea why is it so crucial to not have a wrongly submit run on leaderboard for few hours. And no it's not better to prevent because out of 1000 submits maybe one will be fake. I've already wrote why i want it disabled, because of it being so late, you get to answer shitton of questions about actual time/wr to beat or whenever you pb, why this run is not on leaderboard for over a week, plus most of time people get to know if someone beat their time not from page but from random person during stream who watched that other person's stream - all that annoying garbage because of this pointless system and lazyness of mods.

And holy shit, it's a video game and you're talking as if someone choosing to remove vods in order to fix irl stuff is no longer trustworthy, so yeah, you've got some real priority/trust issues and tbh, i no longer trust your opinions being sane because of that.

sfsf likes this. 
  kartachakartacha

I do not have too many arguments but one. As a person who follows the Super Metroid speedruns I am greatly frustrated by the amount of notifications for people who submit fake WR runs. Even if they are 1, 2 or 5 runs a week. I would really love to see Super Metroid actively moderated BEFORE the runs are allowed to participate which will most probably not going to happen but I would really hate Diablo 2 to go that way. Yeah, I know D2 is astronomically less popular of a speed game but still, fake submissions are fake submissions and in D2 cheap spliced runs should be a lot easier to make than in Super Metroid.
That is just my opinion. If we want runs to appear in the leaderboards up to a day earlier then we may need to think of more moderators.

 
  EwilEwil

"Just notify that person to change/remove run, no idea why is it so crucial to not have a wrongly submit run on leaderboard for few hours"

There is no PM system on speedrun.com and many runners have no contact info in their profile, unless you want to use Youtube which sucks for messages. No idea why having fake runs on the leaderboards is so crucial? Because everyone following the game receives a notification about new WR and it's also posted on the main page, which just confuses people, they ask on Discord, and it's just unnecessary trouble that could have been easily prevented.

"And no it's not better to prevent because out of 1000 submits maybe one will be fake"

It's not just fake runs, it's also runs in wrong category, accidentally paused timer in the middle of the run, etc. It happens often, trust me.

"I've already wrote why i want it disabled, because of it being so late, you get to answer shitton of questions about actual time/wr to beat or whenever you pb, why this run is not on leaderboard for over a week, plus most of time people get to know if someone beat their time not from page but from random person during stream who watched that other person's stream - all that annoying garbage because of this pointless system and lazyness of mods."

Why not add your PB to your stream layout until the run is verified, if answering this question bothers you that much?

"And holy shit, it's a video game and you're talking as if someone choosing to remove vods in order to fix irl stuff is no longer trustworthy,"

Yeah it's a "stupid" videogame, but unfortunately there are still people like you that want to be the best or troll the community, so they decide to cheat/submit a fake run, which is not fair to others, therefore it's necessary for other people (mods) to check every submitted run. As long as this happens, and I'm pretty sure it will, verifying runs will be necessary to prevent shit like this.

 
  Teo-Teo-

Alright...

You complain about the fact that you have to answer questions like "Why is your WR not on speedrun.com?"

Here is the shitstorm we would get if there was no verification process (Example - fake run gets posted while I am streaming):
"Did you see run x?"
"Why is there still a fake run / run without vod or whatever else on the leaderboards"
"Why did we get a notification for a run that doesn't exist?"

If you would even remotely know how many times I had to answer the question about "Why are slimos runs deleted". Do you really think that was any fun for us? Especially when you came back and casually said "yea, I was just doing this to shield myself from question" - There are so much easier ways to shield yourself from the outside. A simple video "I will take a little break to deal with RL stuff" or even the same thing as a post here or on twitter...
You basically forced everyone that knew about your twitter post to use YOUR lie and put it out there.

Also.. There are people that don't post their runs immidiatly. (e.g. MrLlamaSC's 1:16:xx Sorc normal Speedrun) In this case your frequent questions will still appear.
Say someone beats a WR and didn't submit it yet, what happens?
People that have seen the new WR and go from channel to channel. "Did you see the new WR?" - How could I when it was not submitted yet?
Or in the channel that didn't submit it - "Why didn't you submit your run yet?"

In any scenario there will always be some amount of questions you have to deal with.
I do know how much people come into the chat and ask questions about other peoples runs. (especially WRs / almost WRs / fake / no vod runs)

You are the only person that complains about not having runs immidiatly on the leaderboards.

On a last note:
Insulting us is not helping your case.

For me personally this topic is closed. If anyone wants to talk to me about this again, feel free to contact me on twitch / discord.

ZabaZaba and EwilEwil like this. 
  ŚlimoŚlimo
(edited: )

Uhhh, don't people upload the runs somewhere?
"Why not add your PB to your stream layout until the run is verified, if answering this question bothers you that much?" and that solves what exactly?

And lol Teo, so you suddenly give a damn when it would be you having to answer some questions like that from time to time, but obviously there's not enough to care about other people and actually sacrifice precious two minutes a day to check website for new run, so they don't have to deal with it every time? no idea why do you bring my case here, you know nothing and it has nothing to do with the topic, but if you want to see the difference, i've said i'm sorry about these two months, while you don't have balls to even say that to me and everyone for all your ignorance, instead you're changing topic, too much ego i guess? Insulting doesn't help me in what way? Obviously you wouldn't react to anything else and i have nothing to lose, haha. Of course i'm alone with hurrying you up, who else from our runners could possibly speak up in your opinion, it's not beneficial at all after all.

And no, topic is not closed, it's not you to decide it, cause it can't be as it is still, will you and Lav stop shitting on runners or will you disable verification?

sfsf likes this. 
  EwilEwil

"and that solves what exactly?"

So you don't have to answer questions about who has WR, what is your PB, etc., which you refered to as "annoying garbage".

 
  DonForgoDonForgo

First, he creates a shit storm by deleting all his runs.
Then now he creates another shit storm trying to revamp volunteered verfication so the community doesn't get any misinformation.

I'm going to go back to listening to Crazy Dog on loop for some sanity.

Daz86Daz86 likes this. 
  FrameDumpFrameDump

Stop it guys! All of the love and affection in this forum is going to make my heart burst!

This thread actually gave me a good laugh. I agree with almost all statements. IMO Slimo is correct in his initial point, but I think that can just be solved by making him a moderator. Teo firing shots at his behaviour around the IRL stuff is pretty damn weak - this community is pretty toxic. I would argue that Slimo would have sought the support of this community, rather than doing what he did, IF this "community" was not complete garbage. I am a reasonable guy, and I don't get upset by many things at all.. but Teo's attitude in general just grinds my gears to no end.

Id rather see a dedicated site for d2 speed-running, than continue this kind of crap on here.

 
  Teo-Teo-

@FrameDump

as I already postet - There is easier way of handeling problems IRL that don't disrupt a full community which I have learned to be extremly nice and helpfull as mental support or even as a vent in tough live situations.
I don't think I would be in the place I am right now IRL without this awsome community.

So yes, knowing from my own experience I can not accept an action like that without my reservations.
I am sorry if you can't deal with other peoples opinions and reactions. Insulting people to be weak that have a different approach to things is
The waves his statement caused were really tough to handle.

Not because I got WR's for "free". The shitstorm I had to take for these (back then) "dirty" WR's was absolutly insane.

So please don't give me a hard time for being harsh on this topic.

As for the comunity being toxic... You are literally the only one I have ever seen say that. This comunity is very helpfull and welcome to every new speedrunner.

Back to thread topic:
As mentioned there is arguments for both sides of this. I don't see enough benefit from removing the verification process.
I am simply not willing to risk complete chaos in the leaderboards because some troll might have the "funny" idea to ruin it. Sorting out stuff like that afterwards can be harder then you think.

 
  suunnyyyysuunnyyyy

All of this is madness so I'll only refer to last post to avoid elaborating.

Teo, sorry but not everyone is so eager to share personal stuff with 'people from the internet'. Not everyone is a emotional exhibitionist ready to turn camera on and cry about private stuff. Not everyone thinks the same as you... Plus, it's very insensitive of you cause you claim to be understanding and to be part of understanding community but at the very same time you bash someone for not doing things your way and you feel insulted cause Slimo took a FULL break on HIS term... You have no idea what was going on and what pushed Slimo to do such a radical thing. You have NO IDEA and as a human being and a somehow important person in this community you should be an example - you should look at another speedrunner and FIRST OF ALL see another human being.

'He disturbed a full community'. Is it really more important than the fact that something happened and he needed a break?? IS THIS the example of this legendary 'support' of D2 speedrunning community?? For me, it seems that you don't give a fuck about another person from your precious community or you just can't stand the fact that you don't know what happened (ahhh, the legendary human curiosity... 'vent or gtfo'/ 'do it my way or begone' ;)).

Secondly, do u take every different opinion as an insult? FrameDump DIDN'T say that you're weak... He said that firing shots at Slimo when he had tough IRL time is weak. It is. It's placing video game stuff above IRL problems of someone who belongs to the same 'supportive' community as you... IT IS WEAK. TRY TO BE A HUMAN AND A FRIEND FIRST AND THEN A SPEEDRUNNER/MOD, OK? Maybe then ppl won't write that SOMETHING YOU DO (not YOU) is weak.
"As for the comunity being toxic... You are literally the only one I have ever seen say that. This comunity is very helpfull and welcome to every new speedrunner."

I second what FrameDump said. I've been a lurker/mostly silent viewer in this community for quite some time now and I can totally second that. But that's the whole different topic (I would be able to write a thesis on why this community is toxic... as every online community tbh - to think that any kind of virtual group is all glitter n unicorns is just childish and delusional...).

PS.: In my post I'm not talking about the WHOLE community. There is a bunch of beautiful exceptions who really are super fun to hang out with and who are really reliable. :))

 
  Teo-Teo-

@suunnyyyy
I just quote myself:
"A simple video "I will take a little break to deal with RL stuff" or even the same thing as a post here or on twitter..."
I can't believe that this is harder then getting (and I am guessing here) a lot of post about "how did you cheat" or "why did you come forward now"

Maybe my English is not good enough to express exactly what I want to say...
I respect Slimo as a extremly good speedrunner. As for his personality I can't really speak too much, since I don't know him that well...
How can it be so bad to criticize an action that in MY opinion was wrong.

And you are right - There is always elements in a community that are toxic. But this is subject for everyone individually to judge by themselves.
Maybe I am one of these elements. I realize that some of my character traits are something that doesn't fit well with others, on stream and IRL.

In the end this discussion won't come to an end because of difference in opinions and this is fine.

I personally just want to have the leaderboard as clean as possible. And I personally don't see this suggestion be the way.
We have added a third moderator. So the delay should not happen that much anymore.

 
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