327327

https://www.speedrun.com/rules

• The game itself must not be altered or controlled with outside tools. Exceptions can be made on a community basis (e.g., character creation scripts, logo/cutscene removal dlls, etc.)

Please, change the Rules and be more public when you are doing things like this.

 
  WafuWafu

You literally quoted that "exceptions can be made on a community basis". Rules don't have to say what is allowed, the rules have to say what is NOT allowed.

 
  327327

It says what is allowed, subject to the consent of the community, otherwise it is prohibited. Rule d2 does not contain provisions on the script. Although I am against scripts as such, I understand that this will be approved, I just ask you to do it openly and officially, and not in a quiet.

 
  Bender_Bender_

@WafuWafu
"exceptions can be made on a community basis" - as far as i am aware no-one asked the community if we want this or are ok with this. Either Indrek just did it without asking if it is ok or he asked a mod who approved (and told no-one, which is what 327 points out here -> got to make stuff like that public)

PS: i`m also against scripts as this

 
  WafuWafu
(edited: )

I think you might not be quite getting the speedrun.com rules, but it doesn't matter. It would be nice to have an official statement so that people know what they can actually use or not. I agree that with D2, it's not very clear. But it needs more global description than "x version of tool y is allowed", then this wouldn't even be an issue.

@BenderBender - Yeah, I'm only saying that what's in the rules doesn't have to list everything that's allowed. I agree with the point that it should've been discussed on the forums or on Discord with the community.

 
  IndrekIndrek
(edited: )

The macro for resets is public and there are many runners using it already. I don't mind if it was banned though. It does feel pretty powerful after resetting manually for years.

 
  MekalbMekalb

This brings up a good point. Is there a list of modifications allowed in D2 speedrunning? The only one that I'm aware of is glide wrapper, specifically keeping mouse movement inside the window. I assume this is allowed, as many speedrunners use it. If a list does not exist, I would highly prefer these exceptions made public, all in one location, and easily accessible. The rule is that the game cannot be altered using outside tools, so any exceptions to this rule must be made public, preferably listed together and easily accessible.

 
  327327

There is a rule about it
https://imgur.com/a/w8ukDVq
So if you use mouse keeping it should be illegal

 
  Teo-Teo-

you guys are just looking for loop holes at this point right?
If someone really wants to write a 20 pages rule book that nobody will read - go ahead...

Reset-Script / macro are fine for resetting.

I don't see what your issue is - It saves maybe 20 minutes per 4-5 hour stream - And only if you go for a specific town exit.

Also:
For a lot of ppl the game is not playable without glide wrapper.
And - How do you prove that someone is using a mouse capturing program? We don't have time to watch every run and put our eyes to scan mode in order to see if the mouse might have left the window if such a program is not used.

WafuWafu likes this. 
  327327

Scripting is a serious issue within speedrun. In fact, the use of scripts is the difference between speedrun and TAS. For me personally, speedrun is the fastest passing game in equal conditions for everyone. If a person completed the game faster than me using scripts this is a dubious achievement.

Also the main rule of speedrun.com is the game itself must not be altered or controlled with outside tools. Such use is only possible with the consent of the community. The point is not to write 20 pages rule book, the point is not not break basic rules.

 
  Teo-Teo-

Well...
included the rules for glide wrapper:
A lot of people need to use it in order to even play the game. As far as I know it is even a by blizzard tollerated "mod".

for reset macro / script:
Yes, scripting in speedrunning is a problem if they are used DURING the actual run - not while resetting.
It really saves some time, if you do hours up on hours of resets. Even then it is not a huge thing.

for mouse capture:
I don't see how you even could enforce this. - Even if stated in the rules it is literally impossible to prove that someone is using such tools. (also yes they are technically a third party program which are forbidden)

In the end speedrunning always will have the aspect of "trust".

 
  WafuWafu

Nobody breaks basic rules. It's just you who doesn't understand the rules and accuses other of breaking them.

As Teo said, some people can't play the game without glide wrapper - that is an external tool and it's not even worthy questioning whether it's allowed or not. This macro that Indrek uses is: 1. Not a modification of the game, 2. Isn't even used during the speedrun. It's so obvious that this should be allowed that there's no point in making a rule about it. And if you want to pointlessly nitpick about equal conditions, there's couple of hints: Operating system is an external tool that controls the game, we don't all have the same version of the OS, we don't all have the same CPU, GPU, HDD/SSD, Memory etc. Yet it's never discussed or even mentioned - because it doesn't matter for the run.

 
  MekalbMekalb

Thanks for updating that Teo!

 
  IndrekIndrek
(edited: )

Pretty sure patch 1.14c (and maybe some others) made official fixes for glide. I don't really see why glide should be banned while the game itself supports it officially.

1.14c patch notes
-Fixed 3 more bugs that cause Mac client crashes on “Save & Exit”
-nGlide will now load on PC

 
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