Forums  /  Chrono Cross  /  Allowed Consoles and Emulators
  EvilAsh25

Here is a list of what I know about how much faster/slower Chrono Cross runs across emulators and consoles. My general thoughts around this are: if a form of emulation is proved slower than running the game on console, in this case the PS2 with Fast Disc Speed, then it should be allowed. I will keep this post updated with any new findings.

Consoles (all allowed)

Playstation 2 SCPH-90001 (slim) Fast Disc Speed - This is the console I do runs on, it has been the standard console for many PS1 speedruns as it is the most accessible console as well as runs off of the original game discs. I will use this as the comparision to everything else.

Playstation 2 SCPH-75001 (slim) Fast Disc Speed - Spikevegeta uses this console, and as far as I can tell, it is identical to the PS2 (90001) model as far as speed. I only did some basic testing of comparing screen transition times.

Playstation 2 (older fat models) Fast Disc Speed - I haven't tested one myself, but the general consensus for the fat PS2s is that they run slightly slower than the slim PS2 models, but still much faster than a PS1.

Playstation 1 - Obviously this will lose time compared to running on a PS2 with Fast Disc Speed enabled.

Official Emulators

Playstation 3 (PSN) - Because the PS3 emulator doesn't have a Fast Disc option, this version should be slower than running on a PS2 with Fast Disc. However, I have not tested it.

PSTV (PSN) - This emulator features a Fast Disc Speed. Using Fast Disc, I did a test of the screen transitions between this and my PS2 (90001) Fast Disc and the PSTV saved ~3 frames on every screen fadeout transition, so it will save about 1 second after 10 or so transitions. However, this version appears that it might lag more in other areas of the game, most notably the Gaea's Navel and Sky Dragon Isle fights. It's almost impossible to compare this. Also, the PSTV runs Final Fantasy 7 faster than PS2 Fast Disc. In my opinion the use of this emulator is still up in the air, as it could still end up being faster.

PSP / PS Vita (PSN) - This emulator also has the Fast Disc Speed option, but I've never tested how it compares to PSTV or PS2 Fast Disc.

(If there is enough interest in people running these versions, we could add a new category that includes them, as Final Fantasy 7 has done.)

PC Emulators

ePSXe (don't know the version) - Since this emulator is based on the PS1, it does not have a Fast Disc option. Sentulututu used this, and just from observations it appears that this emulator loses clost to ~1 second per fadeout screen transition. However, there are sections of that game that normally lag, where this emulator doesn't lag. My best guess here is that overall, time is lost compared to PS2 Fast Disc.

Bizhawk (mednafen core) - I do most of my strats testing with this emulator, and it is known to be the most accurate emulator. Again, as the intention of this emulator is to emulate the PS1, it natually will run the game slower since there is no Fast Disc option. However, I haven't done any real comparisons.

Other emulators - Ideally we could include all emulators, if they run slower than the PS2 Fast Disc. There are, however, seem to be too many poor PSX emulators out there to thoroughly test them all, and they all seem to run different games differently So I'd try to stick to the these first two emulators, as they seem to have the closest accuracy compared to consoles. I use this page to see the comparisons between the accuracy of PSX emulators: http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PS1_Tests

If you've done any of your own testing or comparisons, please post your results in this thread and I will update this post.

 
  cordellium

Not allowing official consoles with official versions of the games seems highly perplexing to me whether or not they are faster or slower than disc based consoles. What is the compelling argument for disallowing these?

At the very least, make a digital category to put digital console runs and emulators. It would be better if a system is made to just have them be on the main leaderboard to be honest (especially official consoles that run official versions of the game), but know that banning digital consoles and emulators is highbrow and reflects a certain amount of smugness present in the community that puts forth such rules.

 
  EvilAsh25

I didn't mean to completely rule out ever using these official versions of the game, but since we don't actually know if they are faster or not yet, I didn't think we could honestly compare them.

Like you said, if people want, we can make a new category for the digital versions of the game, though in the end I'm guessing this would probably just be runs on PSTV. It looks like Final Fantasy 7 has already done this, note that FF7 on PSTV does run faster: http://www.speedrun.com/ff7#PSX_Digital

I will edit my original post to say that we should consider a new category for the digital versions, and remove the bits about allowing/not allowing consoles/emus.

Though to be honest, the accuracy comparison tests from the link in my original post makes me think more so that the official emulators for Playstation 1 are poor.

I guess my original intention for this post was more for a general guideline for new folks to start running the game, and to post what information I have, since there is very little information out there about Chrono Cross in particular. So that is my fault.

 
  drush211

To add a bit to this, the PS Vita version of the game (fast disc speed) is faster than the PS3. I don't have an estimate on total time saved, but the transition screens are consistently faster by a small, but noticeable margin.

 
  CleverLeviathan

I am slightly confused on to which versions are considered legitimate for this run. I have every console and form of this game available outside of PC emulator. I have PS2 PHAT and SLIM, PS3, PSP, VITA, PSTV. As well as I have a PS3 with SSD. As I am trying to clarify if running on Disc is the only qualifying method as of now on the Good Ending run. If my digital versions are not considered legitimate I would prefer to not practice on them. As well just to ad a post script to this. I am a console collector and I do alot of testing and mod engineering on consoles. I noticed a need for testing of games across multiple platforms and some solid data on the differences. If this data is still in need feel free to contact me on here or Twitch under the same name and I can start to work on this information for better information to create proper categories for the community.

 
  EvilAsh25

As of right now, what I think it comes down to is this: Except for runs on PSTV (and Vita), all the other consoles/emus should be allowed on the leaderboard, as all the other options are slower than a PS2 Slim on Fast Disc speed.

If there is enough interest on running on the PSTV I'd be happy to create a new category for it on the leaderboard. The only reason I am hesitant is that this community is still pretty small and more platforms/categories to run on can fracture what we already have established, but at the same time I don't want to prevent people from learning a game just because a console isn't allowed.

I'd love to see more testing on time differences between platforms so we have a better idea of how to compare them. One thing in particular I'd be interested in is how much slower a FAT PS2 (Fast Disc) over a SLIM PS2 (Fast Disc), it might not be as much as we thought. I know some other communities have done some testing between different hardware versions of PS2, emulator, etc... but there doesn't seem to be an answer that 100% covers all PSX games.

 
  CleverLeviathan

I can capture specific section of CC that would display this difference the best possible. If you can tell me a specific segment that is best for counting the time difference i can capture each separate and put them side by side in a video at the first available frame. and even count the frame difference in the video editor. if you would like this done just let me know who to contact with the info i gather and how to get it to them since messaging is not working on here yet. Or i can do a very elaborate forum post.

 
  EvilAsh25

Here is a video I put together of all the PS2 consoles that I own running a simple disc loading test for Chrono Cross, each video does 50 loads.

I think the most interesting thing here is that my Fat 39001 has almost identical, if not faster, loading loading times as the 70012 Slim model. Also, only 2 seconds of difference between those and the 90001 Slim model, stretch that out over 1000 loads (probably a huge overestimate) is just 40 seconds of difference between consoles. Also note that the PSTV loads the same amount faster over the 90001 model, but this test doesn't account for emulation differences that occur during normal gameplay.

If anyone is willing to test additional consoles and provide videos to me I'd be happy to add to this.