You make some good points, while I personally don't know much about Cinema mode since I have never used it, that could definitely be an issue if true.
And for games with more than one player, while there is always a chance of someone using a menu, and I wouldn't say no to having it so they need to show the screens, but its not always very easy to get everyone's perspective so I am not sure how it could be done properly. the gums are more easily handled, they just need to show the lobby before the game, or after so we can see what gums they have on.
Hello, Firstly, about the cinema mode, do you have any evidence that this has helped any runner and how many people even use it. To do such a change I would have to think of people whose capture device or program were to fail or their twitch stream to drop are these people just screwed when we have an option in the game that we could use to help this issue? At least in the way of the in-game cinema we can tell if they speed up the video, but if they were to go into an editing software, they could speed it up ever so slightly and no one would notice. So once again what proof do you have that the cinema is a great time saver and should be banned?
Secondly, making people show both screens would be a huge hurtle to get over as then two or more people would have to run the game and record it, then send the file to each other which could get very large as the run time increases, then throw it in an editing software to make it to where you can see both players POV and then take the time to render and upload the video. This would take ages compared to the methods that we use now to seek out cheated co-op runs. 99% you can tell if someone uses a gobblegum because of the effects that the gums have and the sounds that they make at every stage of getting them. We have literally caught people using this method and it has worked for us so far. The same principle sort of goes for mod menus usually these people aren’t good enough at hiding their mods that a trained eye looking for cheats would not be able to spot some of these inconsistences. It might take a bit depend on how severe the mod menu is but we have also found them this way. Finally, what would you suggest? Would you go as far as hand cameras being required and the people take a video of the background programs to make sure they don’t have a mod menu active on their pc? https://www.speedrun.com/bo3zombies/run/y82667ny https://www.speedrun.com/bo3zombies/run/yoknjv0z Here are two runs where you two don’t show both POV’s.
Finally, we have the showing lobby rule. This is a rule from Alex’s time as mod that I think should be brought more into the way that the runs are accepted today instead of the rule. We have been accepting runs this way for quite a while now and I don’t know if the rule was ever really followed to be honest but after this post goes up, I will be removing it since it is not followed in the slightest. This rule only accomplishes showing us the gums which isn’t even something we really need to know as we can see what gums the people use and that is all that matters in terms of if the speedrun is valid and what category it goes under. Here are two different runs where once again you two don’t show the pre-game lobby. https://www.speedrun.com/bo3zombies/run/zx28kx8m https://www.speedrun.com/bo3zombies/run/zqwjrkrz
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Bling I will go first since you replied first. So, this is an infinitely better idea than putting the two videos together but is still an extra burden that does not need to be there. As I have said we don’t have a problem catching cheaters to my knowledge and it would take twice as long as to verify any run due to having to watch both POV’s and still not find more cheaters. This would also cut out people who might have the money to have a pc that can play the game but can’t record their game play at a sufficient level to get past proof standards these people now just cant run Black ops 3 because of this rule change. This is something that for the amount of people we would find out doesn’t seem worth it to me personally as I value making this community as inclusive as I can possibly be, and this would cut out a portion of the people who would run. Like I said in the previous post just watching the videos all the way through will most of the time let you catch the cheater and then punish them if you have evidence to the contrary please do tell.
Cinema mode part 2: so, to address concerns and to not touch on what I talked about in the first response this will be brief. If runs skip around in cinema mode or in the live recording they should be rejected full stop. This is clearly stated and enforced. Once again do you have any evidence for how much time that this saves over the course of the round 5 or round 30 speedrun?
Third I admit I was wrong you do show it at the end while the video and I didn’t see that my bad on that one.
Onto you now Lance, okay cool I’m glad you would follow the rules if they are updated but it to me like I said above to take down everyone else’s run since they don’t show both POV’s when our current methods seem to work pretty well for catching cheaters. Like I said in the first post I have taking the rule off that you must show the pregame lobby as the rule doesn’t really help out in any way and just adds an extra step to running the game that doesn’t need to be there.
If I have misunderstood anything you guys said be sure to correct me and ill adjust what im saying to your actual point. Il will also be typing up something on MS so just know that I saw what you were saying lance.
So about MS this is fight that I would have said myself a couple of years ago but have since decided wasn’t really worth perusing and here is why, some people especially those on consoles don’t really have a way to put a timer on the video in the same way that the PC can just overlay a timer. Because of this some people especially newer people don’t put a timer so then this falls to two separate options that we come to we can reject these runs due to them not having a timer and we don’t know how accurate their timing of the run is because we see nothing on screen to be able to check it or we can time it ourselves. Now for reasons that I think have become apparent over the last two posts that I’m not really a fan of the first option since that would then put up barriers to people being able to run our games. While for the second option we could just use a livespilt timer instead of some of the other methods that we use right now but there are massive problems with just using a livespilt timer in the absence of a timer by the player. One such of these is that with human reaction time on both the front and the back the timer can be off by quite a bit even if you watch the video multiple times and know exactly when the end is coming your reaction time and still make the timer off by quite a bit. Personally, I’ve seen almost up to a second off by the time you factor in these numbers. Then you have the issues of what if you don’t have time to watch the full run in one sitting if the run is over 30 minutes or so it’s a very real possibility that you might not have the time to get through the whole thing and if you are watching and timing the run you cant watch the run is x2 speed as need the accurate timing so some of these 2 hour long runs we get start to be a burden. What if you are close to done on one of these videos and then you accidentally reset the timer or miss the ending by a second then the whole timer is off by more than it is in the current method so this just further complicates the issue. Another problem is getting people to even put a timer on their video when they can. Next we have to think after I explain all that trouble that we would go through doing the MS method, how many runs will this affect and the short answer is almost none and for those we have different methods to time them that are more accurate than livespilt anyway. The game and the series aren’t really that optimized still, and many runs could still have minutes shaved off with better strategies and luck. Some people also just won’t really do timers or might not know how to make them work properly so in this we have just used the method I’m about to explain for as long as I have been here. Basically this is why currently we retime to the whole second with a time calculator if there is no timer and take precautions if a run might be super close to then go in the count the frames at which the run starts and count how long the run is that way so that we can get a super accurate timing but like I have said this is often not even remotely necessary to see who is in what place. Hope this helped explain the position a little better.
Ill do the short one first the rule about lobby is gone so this doesn’t matter anymore so cinema is good. Now for the long one, we have many other ways of finding out cheats like if someone were to use a gum in a no gum run you can tell pretty easily if someone is using a gum. The effects of the gums are very noticeable since many of them alter the game so much that is hiding them is nearly impossible. Like I’ve said before you can hear and see someone picking up a gum so once again it is hard to hide all these things. Finally, speedrunning requires some sort I trust I feel. Now let me explain what I mean by this there is 1001 ways to cheat in any speedgame COD zombies is no exception to this rule people can and have used a trainer on Black Ops 1 to try and cheat and get a WR this could be something as small as making the zombies spawn a little faster which would massively speed up a longer run or could do small things to make themselves do more damage and take less with a trained eye you might be able to spot these inconsistences but without seeing the programs running in the back ground and them showing what they have adjusted in the trainer you have no way of knowing for certain if they are cheating. This is why I asked in the first post do you want people to go through the programs to see if they have a trainer downloaded? At what point is it save enough for you to say that there is not chance they cheated?
The question is: at what point is do you draw the line at too much burden on the player to prove they haven’t cheated. Would you make them show the files on their computer to show that they didn’t have a trainer active? At what point would you consider a run guaranteed not to have cheats?
