dxtrdxtr

Personally I don't mind it. We see it everywhere on many games and it's not likely to be less used. I would use it if I could for comfort reasons.

Times change, new programs are being developed all the time. Even in speedrunning. Tools that help keep track of your progress but doesn't change the gameplay itself. I'm fine with that.

Maybe we start splitting at faded black screen for even more precise splitting.

PikachuPikachu likes this. 
  PikachuPikachu

you're talking about the autosplitter as if it were a bot that would play for you. I agree that it may be easier to predict patterns or drops, but this is a just autosplitter. lol

Neural89Neural89 likes this. 
  ZimondZimond

Nope all I'm saying is that it's an advantage. Not just in terms of convenience, but also cause it can help your gameplay. Iv'e given some examples of why that's the case. Personally I don't really mind people using it either

 
  PikachuPikachu

then I will use autosplitter xD just because is convenience

 
  MrPupGMrPupG

Just wanted to say, using an autosplitter is for lazy people that doesn't want to press the input to split time manually then check your VoD run to frame count your exact PB time or if you get a WR time. Using that program for only Emulator is an unfair and has an advantage over everything since there is no use for the consoles. I'm not saying just for Batman: The video game. I'm saying for the all of the games. I much rather manually split it when I'm running a game or two by using my own finger on the Numpad or using my foot on the pedal to split the time. Instead of relying too much using a bot to split it for you (not matter how bad it can go when it's acting weird).

 
  Bro.D.MaxBro.D.Max

Guys, i don't see nothing wrong with autosplitter. My opinion is that if you really have a skill, you won't resent about it and just get WR with or without autosplitter, PC/console.

If you're so sure, get WR with autosplitter. I guess, It is not so easy. Except I can speak like this too 😉

 
  Chambers_NChambers_N

I think there is an underlying principle. Being fed frame information in any game is problematic. If this program can do this then that seems to be the point on contention. We generally would say that watching ram addresses in emulator is a problem. Get wrong technodrome then reset, no need to play it out. If autosplitter can be used to know a frame then why not start splitter on power on and to split when a transition occurs after start press. Check the frame, if bad then reset. I dont know if this can happen but the general principle is that any tool that can feed you technical information like what frame you are on is generally looked down upon and can be used to justify other tools to be fed similar information, then where does that stop? When do we start watching ram addresses? I think this is the concern.

 
  junkyard_davejunkyard_dave

Chambers, a question:

At what point is what you're doing equally more "honourable" than cheating? Going through 10+ different NES consoles to find the best aligned PPU while down talking every emulator user who a majority probably don't even care about this stuff. The average emulator user isn't some demon who will presumably cheat 100% of the time. I get emulators can do things that manually, console users can't, but this isn't the same as the Technodrome and not comparable.

The thing about Batman is everyone checks their timer to understand pace, autosplitter or not. I check my timer manually to understand the hopper patterns in 3-1, 3-2, 4-1, and the act 1 and 2 bosses. I do all this manually. Everyone does who can run this at a competitive level.

What sense does it make to ban an autosplitter which does exactly the same thing automatically?

[edit]: That's not to say yes, allow RAM watch or something for emulator users.

But automatic splitters in this case would yield no advantage over what people already do manually as realistically whether or not you can tell a pattern is upcoming with certain precision, it's still up to you to execute properly within possibly less than 3 tenths of a second.

[editx2]: I think even the autosplitter (haven't tried it myself) works on console as well, so it's not like emulator users possibly even have an inherent advantage over console users here.

Neural89Neural89 likes this. 
  Chambers_NChambers_N

Principle one: The achievement utilized original hardware only. This is much like the example I gave when discussing default RAM state regarding Metriod. Sure you can get similar/same results from emulator but in my mind the end does not justify the means. Emulator has a fixed RAM state upon startup, and worse this state can be preset in different ways in some emulators, while the RAM chips within the console have variability. In my opinion the fixed nature of the Emulator is actually manipulating the way the game should interact with the hardware which is not as clean and exact as the Emulator forces upon it. This is also demonstrated with the PPU/CPU alignment, where the communication between these two chips in the console causes variability, the emulator fixes one and only one state yielding the same outcomes, once again manipulating the way the game would have reacted with the console and granting emulator players an advantage because they are working with a fabricated state instead of a natural one. Just because I happen to have a console that always yields a favorable Kraid pattern isn't a good reason for a person to use a non-nintendo non-original product such as Everdrive/Powerpak to force this end if the person happens to have less than favorable results with their console. In one instance I am utilizing what is available to me which is official release, in the other instance I would be manipulating the RAM with a 3rd party product because the OS writes to the RAM before the ROM is loaded. Maybe some people don't care about this principle but it does to others, such as myself.

Principle two: Any program, splitter or otherwise, which communicates information regarding a very specific frame, in this game or any other, is problematic. If you can identify a specific frame manually then that is how the player interfaces with the game. In Castlevania I am able to identify the frame I am on most of the time, but a program may be able to communicate this to me 100% of the time. The difference is that I would be bringing more to the table than just myself, and when you introduce a foreign element it is no longer the mere skill of the player and some would even go as far as to begin to refer to it as tool assisted, because you are using a tool to assist you in what otherwise would have been a natural state of player vs. the game alone. To clarify, I am speaking about in-game detail, I am not talking about having some pre-game notes you can reference etc, because that is communication with yourself.

I don't mind offering this one response but you will have to take it for what it is because despite my perspectives on these matters I neither play this game nor am interested in long discussions. If any one finds these thoughts helpful and feel that they contribute to the discussion overall is sufficient enough for me. People will have to assess these things for themselves and determine what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve it.