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Forum: Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix

Thread: Information on Moon_LX's Ban from 2FM (2018)

Started by: Wyattw8Wyattw8

It has come to the moderators attention that Moon_Lx's personal best(PB) of 19:46 in Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix HD PS4 Level 1 Data Org RTA is spliced. Splicing is taken very seriously in speedrunning so we wanted to do an in depth investigation before taking any action.

The outstanding evidence and main focus will be inconsistencies in the 'Max Combo' displayed shown during limits in Moon_Lx’s PB of 19:46 (https://youtu.be/lJANKLq9ifc). To show the inconsistencies we will be comparing to CrispyMe’s PB of 19:54 (https://youtu.be/6-50DdLnIpM), and Ninten866’s PB of 20:54 (https://youtu.be/pNSNpU0e0gY).

Things we know about 'Max Combo'
-it is preserved through saves.
-if a new 'Max Combo' is reached but then Sora dies and you use 'Continue', the 'Max Combo' will be reset to what it was before that encounter.
-if a new ‘Max Combo’ is reached and Sora enters a loading zone/completes a boss fight, the new ‘Max Combo’ will be recorded into Jiminy’s Journal. The new ‘Max Combo’ replaces the previous ‘Max Combo’, and it will remain there until an even higher ‘Max Combo’ is attained.*

*Since Lvl 1 Data Org RTA is usually done with a high stock of megalixirs (usually 99), it is standard to NOT save the game after finishing a run to preserve megalixirs for future attempts. This means that any new ‘Max Combo’s’ attained will generally not carry over into a new run attempt.

The first thing we will look at is Duck Flare ‘Max Combo’ going into Demyx versus the previous fight:
Moon_Lx end of Saix(this run uses a different route): https://i.imgur.com/23UHc9z.png
Moon_Lx start of Demyx: https://i.imgur.com/Z3o1Ov4.png

CrispyMe end of Zexion: https://i.imgur.com/ZgmMZQG.png
CrispyMe start of Demyx: https://i.imgur.com/8T3lNqd.png

Ninten866 end of Zexion: https://i.imgur.com/WhKwJYz.png
Ninten866 start of Demyx: https://i.imgur.com/dV9Z72d.png

CrispyMe and Ninten866 show 200 and 224 on both ending Zexion and entering Demyx respectively. Moon_Lx, however, shows 189 leaving Saix but 313 entering Demyx. This is odd.

Let's take a closer look at the 'Max Combo' for Duck Flare at the end of the several fights and the start of Demyx for Moon_Lx:
Duck Flare at the end of Saix: https://i.imgur.com/23UHc9z.png
Duck Flare at the start of Demyx: https://i.imgur.com/Z3o1Ov4.png
Duck Flare at the start of Xaldin: https://i.imgur.com/kFzqCdd.png
Duck Flare at the start of Xigbar: https://i.imgur.com/MclK5fY.png

What we can see here is that for Saix, Xaldin and Xigbar the 'Max Combo' shows 189 at the end whereas Demyx shows 313 at the start of the fight. This is the big red flag that brings the validity of the run into question. There is no explanation for the ‘Max Combo’ to jump up at the start of Demyx and jump back down afterwards. Even though a new ‘Max Combo’ is not set within the fight with our current understanding it should still show 189 at the start of Demyx or 313 at the start of Xaldin.

We can also apply this to Comet:
Comet during Marluxia: https://i.imgur.com/TLcUcQM.png
Comet at the end of Larxene: https://i.imgur.com/s9cnDgM.png
Comet during Demyx: https://i.imgur.com/93XQUsg.png

Marluxia and Larxene both end with a 'Max Combo' of 129 and Demyx starts with it at 202. Again, this does not make sense.

Now we will focus on Demyx. Using CrispyMe's PB video as a reference we can see how the 'Max Combo' for Duck Flare interacts with the Demyx fight:
First Duck Flare at the start of 99 Water Clones: https://i.imgur.com/wGABrGu.png
End of first Duck Flare during 99 Water Clones: https://i.imgur.com/tkD58Xe.png
Start of second Duck Flare: https://i.imgur.com/zOBgAly.png
End of second Duck Flare: https://i.imgur.com/qBznYom.png

At the start of 99 Water Clones CrispyMe's Duck Flare has a 'Max Combo' of 200. As the Duck Flare ends we see that 'Max Combo' is now 293. At the start of his next Duck Flare we see that 'Max Combo' is now 325. We currently do not have an explanation for this behavior but the assumption is that the game is still counting the Firaga hits while the limit is still active even though there are no more rockets(this behavior is consistent with what we see in Ninten866’s PB). What we are looking for however is that the 'Max Combo' ends with 325.

Again we can apply this to Comet:
Start of Comet: https://i.imgur.com/nXvuYQ6.png
End of Comet: https://i.imgur.com/B5juUhn.png

Comet 'Max Combo' changes from 199 to 204 during Demyx for CrispyMe.

If we take a look at Ninten866's PB:
First Duck Flare at the start of 99 Water Clones: https://i.imgur.com/o2ZGZRZ.png
End of first Duck Flare during 99 Water Clones: https://i.imgur.com/UCrlgyp.png
Start of second Duck Flare: https://i.imgur.com/W43Pfie.png
End of second Duck Flare: https://i.imgur.com/SfciUaX.png

Ninten866's Duck Flare 'Max Combo' starts at 224 then becomes 229 after the first Duck Flare. The second Duck Flare starts with 260 and ends with 287.

Start of Comet: https://i.imgur.com/z1Rrcny.png
End of Comet: https://i.imgur.com/lY9fv4K.png

Ninten866's Comet 'Max Combo' does reach over 200 in alignment with CrispyMe's fight.

This tells us a few major things. The current strategy used on Demyx can bring Duck Flare 'Max Combo' close to 300+ and Comet 'Max Combo' up to 200+. Since Demyx is last for CrispyMe and Ninten866 it would appear to be uncommon for Duck Flare and Comet to reach the 'Max Combo' seen during Demyx before fighting him. This is also supported by compiling all the limits used and the amount of hits acquired in each fight being nowhere close to 300 or 200 for Duck Flare and Comet respectively(data shown below). Seeing as how during Moon_Lx's Demyx fight his Duck Flare 'Max Combo' started at 313 and his Comet 'Max Combo' started at 202 and were not obtained during the fight, it is likely that the Demyx fight had already been completed then reattempted.

Compilation of Limit ‘Max Combo’ and # of Hits Recorded:
"<Limit>: <'Max Combo' when the Limit is used the first time>, (<# of recorded hits by game>)"

Moon_Lx’s 19:46:
Data Marluxia
- Comet: 129, (50) (44)
Data Larxene
- Comet: 129, (119)
Data Lexaeus
- Comet: 129, (47)
- Duck Flare: 189, (133)
Data Saix
- Duck Flare: 189, (136) (142) (140) (140) (127) (61)
Data Demyx
- Duck Flare: 313, (83) (122) (227) (304)
- Comet: 202, (187)
Data Xaldin
- Duck Flare: 189, (144) (142) (142) (141) (137) (142)
Data Xigbar
- Duck Flare: 189, (139) (142) (142) (140) (146)
Data Vexen
- Duck Flare: 189, (58)
Data Zexion
- Duck Flare: 189, (143) (131)

CrispyMe’s 19:54:
Data Marluxia
- Comet: 199, (45) (44)
Data Larxene
- Comet: 199, (88)
Data Saix
- Duck Flare: 200, (138) (141) (140) (140) (139) (70)
Data Lexaeus
- Comet: 199, (45)
- Duck Flare: 200, (116)
Data Xaldin
- Duck Flare: 200, (147) (142) (145) (142) (144) (122)
Data Xigbar
- Duck Flare: 200, (139) (143) (144) (142) (121)
Data Vexen
- Duck Flare: 200, (49)
Data Zexion
- Duck Flare: 200, (129)
Data Demyx
- Duck Flare: 200, (84) (124) (293/325) (237)
- Comet: 199, (204)

Ninten866’s 20:54:
Data Marluxia
- Comet: 71, (51) (37)
Data Larxene
- Comet: 71, (157)
Data Saix
- Duck Flare: 224, (139) (142) (142) (142) (135) (87)
Data Lexaeus
- Comet: 157, (51) (44)
- Duck Flare: 224, (131)
Data Xaldin
- Duck Flare: 224, (142) (26) (136) (144) (144) (142) (116)
Data Xigbar
- Duck Flare: 224, (111) (141) (141) (142) (145) (15)
Data Vexen
- Duck Flare: 224, (36) (1)
Data Zexion
- Duck Flare: 224, (22)
Data Demyx
- Duck Flare: 224, (97) (125) (229/260) (287)
- Comet: 157 , (203)

Just to reiterate, Moon_Lx’s ‘Max Combo’ at the start of Demyx shows 313 for Duck Flare and 202 for Comet which is inconsistent with previous and later fights. Since Ninten866 and CrispyMe do Demyx last we can only see that their ‘Max Combo’ at the start of Demyx is consistent with the previous fight. For transparency, CrispyMe made a video showing Saix -> Demyx -> Xaldin,
What we see here is a contradiction in the behavior of ‘Max Combo’ in CrispyMe’s video and Moon_Lx’s 19:46. As we would expect, in CrispyMe’s video Duck Flare ‘Max Combo’ remains consistent at the end of Saix and the start of Demyx, as well as being consistent between the end of Demyx and the start of Xaldin.

Our only conclusion after all of this is that the Demyx fight in Moon_Lx’s 19:46 is spliced into the run.

Unfortunately while investigating this run we also looked into Moon_Lx’s other runs and have compelling evidence some of those may have been spliced as well. We will look into this further, but we wanted take action against this fairly clear case of splicing for this run. As such, we will be removing all of Moon_Lx’s current runs on speedrun.com for all versions of Kingdom Hearts II, as well as a permanent ban from future submissions of Kingdom Hearts II.

We reached out to Moon_Lx and he admitted to the splicing.

Obviously we, as moderators, did not do enough when originally verifying the run so we will be looking at different ways to ensure runs are not spliced. As such we may be updating the Data Org ruleset to reflect this. The run itself should be unaffected, but rules such as showing in game time before and after the run may be implemented(this is just an example and not a defacto way of preventing splicing).

 

Forum: Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix

Thread: Anti Points

Started by: Wyattw8Wyattw8

This is the current Anti Point route that the Beginner Any% route uses. This is highly subject to change depending on alternative strategies.

1 - Valor Form in Hollow Bastion 1: +1

1 - Valor Form before Missions: +0
Forced Party Member doesn't add Anti Points

1 - Valor Form after Missions: +0,
Forced Party Member doesn't add Anti Points

2 - Valor Form after Summit: +1
(optional minor time save ~1 second)

3 - Valor Form During/After Square Fight: +1

4 - Valor Form on the way to Urns: +1
(optional minor time save ~1 second)

5 - Valor Form after Urns: +1
(optional minor time save ~1 second)

6 - Valor Form during 2nd phase of OC Pete: +1
4 Party Member adds Anti Point but can not get Anti Form

7 - Valor Form After Parlor: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

8 - Valor Form before Thresholder: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

9 - Valor Form after latern Mini Game: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

10 - Valor Form before Shadow Stalker: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

11 - Valor Form docking in Disney Castle: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

12 - Before Old Pete: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

13 - Before Boat Pete: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

14 - During TR Pete: +1
4 Party Member adds Anti Point but can not get Anti Form

0 - Obtain Wisdom Form

0 - Valor Form during/after barrels: +0
Forced Party Member doesn't add Anti Points

1 - Wisdom Form Grinding 1: +1

2 - Wisdom Form Grinding 2: +1

3 - Wisdom Form before Treasure Room: +1

4 - Valor Form during Twin Lords: +1

5 - Valor Form during Prison Keeper: +1

0 - Obtain Limit Form

1 - Wisdom Form to Space Paranoids: +1

2 - Wisdom Form during Cube Mini Game: +1

0 - Obtain Master Form

1 - Master Form during Hostile Program: +1

2 - Limit Form during Demyx: +1

2 - FF Fights: +0
Sora is alone so any Drives during this will add no Anti Points

2 - 1000 Heartless: +0
Sora is alone so any Drives during this will add no Anti Points

3 - Wisdom Form on the way to Rumbling Rose: +1
(Optional) Skipping this allows you to drive during the Xaldin Fight

4 - Master Form during Grim Reaper 1: +1

5 - Master Form During Grim Reaper 2: +1

6 - Valor Form before Xaldin: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

7 - Wisdom Form down the Mountain: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

8 - Valor Form Before Storm Rider: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

9 - Wisdom Form before Roxas: +1
This would normally give us Anti Form but we use the Drive outside of combat

0 - Double Anti Form before Xigbar: -10
Getting Final Form here would also put you at 0 Anti Points.

1 - Master Form during Xigbar: +1

1 - Limit Form during Luxord: +0
Sora is alone so any Drives during this will add no Anti Points

2- Limit Form during Saix: +1
(Optional) Peter Pan is an alternative strategy

After Saix we should never have to Drive in a situation where we would have a chance at Anti Form but I will document them anyways.

3 - Wisdom Form before Xemnas 1: +1

4 - Master Form during Engines: +1
It is not possible to get Anti Form here

5 - Valor Form after all Nobody waves are killed in Core: +1

 

Forum: Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix

Thread: Anti Points

Started by: Wyattw8Wyattw8

All credit goes for this thread goes to to Neraigo.

This information is based of current information and is not necessarily 100% accurate, but this is the information that we base our Anti Point route off of. Bizkit047 has a video covering most of this information and will be linked at the bottom.

The following information is the most relevant to the speedrun.

The general rules for getting Anti Form(there are many exceptions):
-You must be in combat(yellow or red menu)
-You must have 5 or more Anti Points
-Sora must be accompanied by 2 additional Party Members
-Two Become One will guarantee Anti Form while in combat(except for the one time you get Final)

Exceptions to getting Anti Form:
-You can not get Anti Form while you have a total of 4 Party Members(e.g. Hercules during 2nd phase of OC Pete, Hades during OC2, TR Pete). This will however still give Anti Points
-Can not get Anti Form during Hydra
-Can not get Anti Form during Engines in Final Fights
-Can not get Anti Form during Core in Final Fights

Gaining Anti Points:
-Using Valor Form will give you 1 Anti Point
-Using Wisdom Form will give you 1 Anti Point
-Using Limit Form will give you 1 Anti Point
-Using Master Form will give you 1 Anti Point
-You can get Anti Points out of combat but not get Anti Form

Losing Anti Points:
-Getting Anti Form will reduce your Anti Points by 5
-Getting Final Form will reduce your Anti Points by 10
-Getting a new Drive Form (e.g. Wisdom Form after completing Timeless River) will reset your Anti Points to 0.
-Dying will set your Anti Points back to before the fight.

Exceptions to gaining an Anti Point:
-You can not gain Anti Points while Sora is alone. (e.g. 1000 Heartless)
-You can not gain Anti Points while you have a forced Party Member(e.g. Ping(before she becomes Mulan) or Captain Jack in Port Royal)
-You will not gain Anti Points while a Party Member is dead.

I will not go over percentage chance to go anti during combat because as far as the speedrun is concerned you should always have a zero percent chance to get anti form. The precentages are, however, covered in Bizkit047's video that is linked at the bottom.

Http:/​/​https:/​/​www.​youtube.​com/​watch?v=spOsvQ1QHqI

 

Forum: Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep Final Mix HD

Thread: Changing Timing to character select

Started by: Wyattw8Wyattw8

so does that mean we are a go for changing the timing?

AxendsAxends and gamebrain1gamebrain1 like this. 

Forum: Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep Final Mix HD

Thread: Changing Timing to character select

Started by: Wyattw8Wyattw8

So me and some other runners think its pointless to start timing when you hit yes to skip the tutorial and think it should be changed to when you select a character. It doesn't make any sense to not do this since you aren't playing as that character until you select it and most other games with different characters start timing on character select. If we have to retime or change everyones times on the leaderboards i volunteer to be one of the people to do this.

RebelDragon95RebelDragon95 and Sly1020Sly1020 like this.