Forum posts

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: What constitutes a "load"?

Started by: DrClicheDrCliche

@DrClicheDrCliche There can still be changes as to what actually counts as a load. The load removal may still be changed if issues are found, so it's a bit hard to tell exactly right now.

The question is, are you interested in doing this work? Because if not, then it's pointless for me to give you the explanation, because I know how to make the script, it's just not really needed that much from what was told to me.

But anyway, there's 2 things that we count as a load:

1. When player selects a character, it seems to be from the first frame where the doors start opening (not the frames when the doors are closed). If you'd check the frames where the doors are closed, you'd include the TCP/IP loads, which are only supposed to count as a load after the doors start opening, otherwise there's no punishment.

2. When player clicks save & exit, you should check if this part of the screen is stuck (basically the center of the pentagram): https://prnt.sc/ss0pva (that happens after clicking the button) once you're in the menu, the timer should continue again.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: LiveSplit Setup guide

Started by: Teo-Teo-

If there is any problem with the timer, you should report it to me via Discord DMs. That way we'll be able to figure out why something doesn't work for you.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

@327327 Oh, no, I didn't mean that. What I mean is that if you splice a run, you want it to look real. If someone streams the runs, they instantly gain one layer of credibility (because many people will think "oh it's live, this can't be spliced, they already reset 4 times and it's not prerecorded because they talk to the chat"). This has been done in speedrunning and it's easy if you don't have to play the audio.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

@stasyszystasyszy You don't necessarily have to restart the leaderboards, there are ways around this.

@327327 Allowing no sound in a game with competition (let's be honest, D2 is relatively large) is a risky step. You can effortlessly splice a run without sound, create a few sample runs, run a stream on Twitch, stream those sample runs, then switch to the spliced run and everything you have to do is talk to the chat and act like you react to what happened in the run. It might sound complicated but no, people have done that. And people have spliced even runs with audio, they put in the effort to actually align the audio perfectly. That takes insane amount of effort. Having no audio makes this super easy.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

@BokserKabatyBokserKabaty I understand where you're coming from. The thing is, you save and quitting for shrines etc. will always be a time loss. You cannot do that over and over regardless of the loads being removed. But what can, on the other hand happen is this: You wanna farm for a shrine, the game save & quits nearly instantly, wonderful. Or you will save & quit and the game will hang for 8 seconds.

If you just look at the leaderboards, there are people with times 1:09:44 and 1:09:45. So whose run is really better? The loads they had in the run may have been for example 1 minute and 30 seconds. Just something I can imagine for a run of this length. So depending on their hardware (and game randomly deciding to get stuck in loads), the difference between these runners can be even tens of seconds. And what if we imagine this scenario: One person decides: "Oh, I'd really like an experience shrine there", they get it on the second try, get a level faster and save 20 seconds over someone who was in the same situation, but didn't choose to try the shrine. But the game decided to get stuck on both of the loads, so what's the issue here? The player, who made the superior decision might get worse time because the game decided to.

You might argue that "it's just RNG", but this is the kind of RNG that shouldn't be a part of the run.

And as for the only appropriate and enjoyable way of speedrunning the game. Sure, you might have your unique view on this, but I might tell you that this is not what all people will agree on with you. There's many games where IGT allows for more creativity and overall more sensible gameplay. Such as Fallout 4 (https://youtu.be/53ShoXezSzM?t=634 - Here's a clip of one player stacking an item on themselves to achieve more speed, this was btw. run on the last GDQ and I'd say it's one of the most loved runs there and I haven't seen a single complaint about them being in a load screen for a relatively long amount of time)

DrClicheDrCliche and BokserKabatyBokserKabaty like this. 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

@Bender_Bender_ Actually, there are games that require sound to play and it's very reasonable. It makes splicing runs much harder. Especially in a game such as Diablo 2, where splicing is super easy, it wouldn't be so unreasonable to require sound.

@RyuQuezacotlRyuQuezacotl I personally don't like pausing the game for breaks. Surely, if the game is extremely long, then it's reasonable to include some time you can spend afk. But in general, the only reason why games remove the time when the game is closed is because of a crash.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

@MrLlamaSCMrLlamaSC If LiveSplit crashes, I think it should be possible for you to start it again and press your start run key again. It would still remove the times, so you'd only have to append the time it took you to start LiveSplit again. That's how most of the games with IGT LiveSplit solve this problem.

And as you mentioned, it solves TCP/IP loading but it also does solve loading differences between different hardware setups.

And I can absolutely agree, refreshing the leaderboards would suck. Retiming the runs semi-automatically might however be possible.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

@327327 You might be right, I'm definitely willing to expand on the script's functionality if it's possible of course. The question is, how much time over a run do these things take, because some times might be negligible. But again, I'm willing to do changes if something is considered unfair.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

Addition to my last post: Actually did it, my script removes the loading and saving times, but not the menuing required to continue playing. Is there anyone who'd be willing to test this? Just message me on Discord if you can (Wafu#7264)

Edit:
Got input from Indrek and blazer-flamewing, seemed to be sufficient enough. So if there's interest, I'll polish it so that it works with commonly used versions and I could push it directly to LiveSplit so that it requires just a one-click setup.

WraithulekWraithulek, HCGilboaHCGilboa and 2 others like this. 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

@Teo-Teo- Yeah, that's why I was saying the only thing people would need is LiveSplit. I already found a way to remove the loading screen loads, but the issue is that clicking the "Save and exit" is inconsistent between -ns and no -ns, so I'd have to figure that out.

Edit: Another question is: Is the menuing part of the run? I assume you'd count that in, right?

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

@LaVLaV Yeah sure, but again, most people who speedrun regularly use LiveSplit. And from my experience, if a run had fairness issues due to inconsistent loads, the only option was to remove those loads unless it's a console run. That's just the truth of it.

I understand you might have an idea of speedrunning requiring as little tools as possible and there's nothing wrong about that. But sometimes, you gotta live with the fact that even though D2 is an old game, RTA simply won't be fair for everyone.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

Regarding the preparation, I think almost everyone, if not everyone uses LiveSplit. So the preparation needed for switching from RTA to IGT would be like a couple of clicks, I don't think that preparation is much of an argument here.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: We need to address -ns

Started by: IndrekIndrek

A similar thing is in The Elder Scrolls: Arena, where the game just overall runs faster with sound disabled. For me personally, I'd like to see it allowed, although yeah, it's weird to have soundless runs (and it makes splicing a bit easier)

But there's one thing I'm gonna ask, why time by RTA if the loads clearly are inconsistent? It's also not a thing that takes long time to implement.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: Scripts

Started by: 327327

Nobody breaks basic rules. It's just you who doesn't understand the rules and accuses other of breaking them.

As Teo said, some people can't play the game without glide wrapper - that is an external tool and it's not even worthy questioning whether it's allowed or not. This macro that Indrek uses is: 1. Not a modification of the game, 2. Isn't even used during the speedrun. It's so obvious that this should be allowed that there's no point in making a rule about it. And if you want to pointlessly nitpick about equal conditions, there's couple of hints: Operating system is an external tool that controls the game, we don't all have the same version of the OS, we don't all have the same CPU, GPU, HDD/SSD, Memory etc. Yet it's never discussed or even mentioned - because it doesn't matter for the run.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: Scripts

Started by: 327327

I think you might not be quite getting the speedrun.com rules, but it doesn't matter. It would be nice to have an official statement so that people know what they can actually use or not. I agree that with D2, it's not very clear. But it needs more global description than "x version of tool y is allowed", then this wouldn't even be an issue.

@BenderBender - Yeah, I'm only saying that what's in the rules doesn't have to list everything that's allowed. I agree with the point that it should've been discussed on the forums or on Discord with the community.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: Scripts

Started by: 327327

You literally quoted that "exceptions can be made on a community basis". Rules don't have to say what is allowed, the rules have to say what is NOT allowed.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: Lone Wolf

Started by: sceuriolusceuriolu

@sceuriolusceuriolu: You can run whatever you want, you don't need a leaderboard for that. If it proves to be a wanted category, then it's something worth considering. This seems maybe like a nice challenge, but I doubt many people want to run it. We have 2 misc categories: pacifist which some people run and PreLoD (which one person runs, but it's quite obvious why it exists)

As far as my experience goes, most challenge runs don't have a leaderboard.

 

Forum: Diablo II: Lord of Destruction

Thread: Is patching the game during run allowed? (rules question)

Started by: ZutatensuppeZutatensuppe

I don't run the game anymore, so it doesn't affect me. Some games do allow this (e.g. TES: Morrowind), but there, you have 2 instances of the game and just switch mid run. Downloading patch from battle.net could depend too much on your internet speed and would be really unfair. We already use RTA to time the runs, so I'd advise against adding more hardware-dependent stuff.

 

Forum: Lust for Darkness

Thread: Anything about load remover

Started by: WafuWafu

For all active runners (Drakan15, BigTechs - edit your run times according to this), please start the timer when you first see that the game is loading. The time it takes for the first loading to appear is hardware dependent and can take anywhere from 0.5 seconds to having the game stuck for even a minute. RTA should still be timed from pressing "New Game" or "Yes", but in IGT, don't include the time before the first load.

Other than that: This thread is dedicated to any questions related to the load remover. Just post them here or ask me on Discord.

 

Forum: Lust for Darkness

Thread: Leaderboard Vote Time!

Started by: Droogie4EverDroogie4Ever

Nice, thanks for caring!