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@kirkq You forgot to mention that the previous Mods added weren't discussed with the other Mod and there was no general consensus from the community either. And there's being a strong dissatisfaction as well as several people agreeing with it.

If this is what makes the leaderboard finally work, then great. But it's actually sad that you left a guy as a Mod that ignored all the other posts as well as Liv who was helping when the rules when she shouldn't have been doing that in the first place. He was also away from the site for 10 days as soon as he got promoted as a Mod. I literally made a Discord server, changed the rules with Liv, uhTrance and others, verified really old runs that were pending (except my team's runs) and posted all the rules in the forum for actual general consensus.

This just goes to prove that the better you want to make the rules will only cause disconfort. And that the older you are in this site and the more runs you have automatically means you know better than anyone else. And that the more full mods you got as friends the more priviledges you will have in this site (specially if you are friends with the owner of the page, and you know damn well what I am talking about).

Just wish the best to these leaderboards that were always garbage for such amazing games.

Fothsid likes this. 
 

Actually, only three runners left so far, at least for what I can see. I'm happy to see that there are more runs being submitted. In addition, if you ever took the time to check the statistics, you would see that there was always around 2-5 active runners. The leaderboard has always being kind of empty.

By the way, the other people decided to leave themselves without warning anyone. They weren't kicked out nor anyone wanted to kick them out. They had a chance to debate on the new Discord server for the leaderboards and they refused to do it.

Let's try to finish all this issue here in order to calm things down. If you disagree with the new upcoming rules or any other aspect that you think or feel is unfair for those who speedrun the game, please go to the new thread and post your opinions there. Any advice would be appreciated too.

 
 

I forgot to add two points to the debate:

1. Runs that are clearly watchable and audible will be able to be verified.

2. Runs with extreme FPS drops might get rejected.

 
 

I forgot to add two points to the debate:

1. Runs that are clearly watchable and audible will be able to be verified.

2. Runs with extreme FPS drops might get rejected.

witchakorn likes this. 
 

You can join the RE Outbreak Speedunning server we made for the community here: https://discord.gg/fNMEsh

witchakorn likes this. 
 

Hello. As you might know, we are still going through rule changes. I will now only list the rules that would be added.

RULES FOR OFFLINE:

1 - Submit In Game Time (IGT), which is displayed either in the tracker or on the results screen.
2 - Runs must include selecting the map, and must also include character choice, difficulty and selection of AI/Lone Wolf.
3 - EMU players only: We will require all emulator runners to use the tracker and a controller input. You will also have to show the emulator's border.
Tracker available here : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gYPHYUEEvW2tYKPVyRdRYrnyaL-b4uPx/view
4 - The use of File #3 characters is NOT permitted.
5 - Usage of any cheats is banned, this includes turbo controllers / macros, as well as any modification to the game that affects the gameplay. Any player caught cheating will be excluded from participating on the leaderboard.
6 – Modifying the in-game music (and only the in-game music) for aesthetic purposes is fine, however, modifications that alter/affect the gameplay are not allowed. Game sound is also required to be audible at all times.
7 - Infinite ammo is not allowed.

------------------------------------------------------------

RULES FOR ONLINE:

1 – All Point of Views (PoV) will be needed for ANY online runs, or the run will be automatically denied.
2 - Online runs are tracked using real-time / RTA (Real-Time Attack).
3 - The run must start at the lobby, and finish at the end-screen results.
4 - Time starts when you gain control of your character and stops when you lose control of it.
5 - The use of File #3 characters is NOT permitted.
6 - Usage of any cheats is banned, this includes turbo controllers / macros, as well as any modification to the game that affects the gameplay. Any player caught cheating will be excluded from participating on the leaderboard.
7 – EMU players only: We will require all emulator runners to use the tracker and a controller input. You will also have to show the emulator's border.
Tracker available here : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gYPHYUEEvW2tYKPVyRdRYrnyaL-b4uPx/view
8 – Modifying the in-game music (and only the in-game music) for aesthetic purposes is fine, however, modifications that alter/affect the gameplay are not allowed. Game sound is also required to be audible at all times.
9 - Infinite ammo and friendly fire are not allowed.

------------------------------------------------------------

In addition we have to discuss about this point:

-> Should the EMU players start the offline runs after a full restart of the program?

This action would prevent people from using save states in the menu to get the same passwords for some scenarios.

- Please, share your opinions and ask any questions you have. Once we have a general consensus, we will post the rules.

- You can still submit runs and we will be verifying them according to what the current rules say. After we have the new rules ready, we will let you know when they will start taking place so It does not interfiere with the pending runs.

witchakorn likes this. 
 

You can join the RE Outbreak Speedunning server we made for the community here: https://discord.gg/fNMEsh

 
 

Hello. As you might know, we are still going through rule changes. I will now only list the rules that would be added.

RULES FOR OFFLINE:

1 - Submit In Game Time (IGT), which is displayed either in the tracker or on the results screen.
2 - Runs must include selecting the map, and must also include character choice, difficulty and selection of AI/Lone Wolf.
3 - EMU players only: We will require all emulator runners to use the tracker and a controller input. You will also have to show the emulator's border.
Tracker available here : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gYPHYUEEvW2tYKPVyRdRYrnyaL-b4uPx/view
4 - The use of File #3 characters is NOT permitted.
5 - Usage of any cheats is banned, this includes turbo controllers / macros, as well as any modification to the game that affects the gameplay. Any player caught cheating will be excluded from participating on the leaderboard.
6 – Modifying the in-game music (and only the in-game music) for aesthetic purposes is fine, however, modifications that alter/affect the gameplay are not allowed. Game sound is also required to be audible at all times.
7 - Infinite ammo is not allowed.

------------------------------------------------------------

RULES FOR ONLINE:

1 – All Point of Views (PoV) will be needed for ANY online runs, or the run will be automatically denied.
2 - Online runs are tracked using real-time / RTA (Real-Time Attack).
3 - The run must start at the lobby, and finish at the end-screen results.
4 - Time starts when you gain control of your character and stops when you lose control of it.
5 - The use of File #3 characters is NOT permitted.
6 - Usage of any cheats is banned, this includes turbo controllers / macros, as well as any modification to the game that affects the gameplay. Any player caught cheating will be excluded from participating on the leaderboard.
7 – EMU players only: We will require all emulator runners to use the tracker and a controller input. You will also have to show the emulator's border.
Tracker available here : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gYPHYUEEvW2tYKPVyRdRYrnyaL-b4uPx/view
8 – Modifying the in-game music (and only the in-game music) for aesthetic purposes is fine, however, modifications that alter/affect the gameplay are not allowed. Game sound is also required to be audible at all times.
9 - Infinite ammo and friendly fire are not allowed.

------------------------------------------------------------

In addition we have to discuss about this point:

-> Should the EMU players start the offline runs after a full restart of the program?

This action would prevent people from using save states in the menu to get the same passwords for some scenarios.

- Please, share your opinions and ask any questions you have. Once we have a general consensus, we will post the rules.

- You can still submit runs and we will be verifying them according to what the current rules say. After we have the new rules ready, we will let you know when they will start taking place so It does not interfiere with the pending runs.

 
 

I wasn't going to sugarcoat my opinions to sound nice to any of you. Now i'll be neutral as I said. uhTrance will probably explain all the other stuff you brought up.

You were away from the site for 10 days. And no, you are not taking your time to properly verify the runs because, once again, one of the runs that was verified has the wrong time and didn't follow one of the rules your team set. As I said, I will fix that myself.

There's no point in arguing about my point about the rules because they are not inconsistent. If you have a better way to re-time runs and avoid cheating, use it, period. I don't even know why we are debating about this. About the other stuff like extentions, they were added just like the new rules, without debating with the community first in the forums. I complained about them being unnecessary and that you had better things to worry. Again, you all ignored my posts. However, this actually needs everyone's opinions in general, but we also have to consider who are the active runners and potential active runners, at least in my opinion.

Now I'll do my job as a Mod and I'll try to stay neutral. If you want to discuss about this, you can join the Discord server. If you believe I incorrectly verified a run, feel free to let me know and let's fix it.

 
 

@VSilverwings It was done by uhTrance after chatting with him. Hurriboy added you without asking uhTrance, same with the other ones. Hurriboy trusted you, and I'd say uhTrance trusted me. As I said, make a server and let's have everyone there and chat. Being against someone being Mod because of drama doesn't make sense, and three of the new Mods have been Mods for a couple of days. Hurriboy and uhTrance should take the lead, but Hurriboy hasn't said anything up to this point. He's been online and has ignored the posts and I don't see any of you giving a hand to Liv who at the same time, shouldn't be wasting her time fixing the rules for you (us now). Ask uhTrance for all the details.

By the way, now checking the pending runs, some runs were avoided for no reason. There was a run that was 15 days old and the Mod team still decided to verify newer runs. Also, the SD2 run that was incorrectly verified hasn't been fixed. I'll fix it myself and I won't reject their run because the rules were a mess and there's clearly no sign of cheating.

 
 

Ok, since I'm now a Mod, I'll ask @Hurriboy or another Mod to make an OB server like it was initially planned to discuss things about the runs and such together. Now I'll stay neutral. I can make the server myself too if you want me to.

I'll also type the rules I consider should be added in here later. I'll start verifying the pending runs. I'll also add my new twitter account and Discord in my profile in order for people to contact me.

 
 

@uhTrance It's fine. I did not comment on Youtube tho, since I thought the comment could have gotten lost easily. I'll add you on Discord.

 
 

@TheNevs The problem is that the current way of re-timing the runs is inconsistent since it's done manually.

What I'm asking for is to add the rule where all the EMU users should use the tracker. After that you track the time from point A (start) to point B (finish) and you get the real RTA for each person. The person with the most time, is the one who has the real RTA. You do NOT use the IGT shown in the tracker. For PS2, you just get the initial and final frames for each scenarios, and track the time between those and there you get the most accurate RTA possible.

 
 

@Liv If you use a tracker for offline runs, you can see that those cutscene are counted so, they should also be added for online runs. You don't lose the control of your character since you can still ad-lib.

There are some "cutscenes" in between some scenarios that won't even let you ad-lib. The best way to time them will always be since the tracker starts, until it finishes. In other words, since the scenarios starts until it finishes.

@uhTrance I tried to reach you on Discord but you never accepted my friend request and you don't seem to be someone who replies a lot on your Youtube channel and my comment could have been easily been lost. So, let's try to communicate here. I could be a verifier if you gave me the chance to, but that should be debated with the current Mods who don't really want me to be a Mod. The way to properly time the runs has been explained. You can take a look and think about it. A new runs has been incorrectly verified and some others runs like the old ones could be easily re-timed, even without the new rules.

 
 

As for Offline runs I would add/change this:

1. This sentence in point 3: (These aren’t obtainable through normal means for PS2 players)." It's unnecessary since they aren't obtainable normally in both PS2 and EMU, you can get them using some codes which can be done on a PS2 without problems. The sentence does not add anything to the rules and is just extra.

2. Make the tracker compulsory here too since it's easier to cheat on EMUs.

3. This is included in point 4 but I don't know if think it should be clearer there: Save states are forbidden.

As for Online runs I would add/change this:

1. I'd explain point 2 a bit more and explain how the timing will be done. The sentence is fine, but the tracker should be included in all of the POVs for EMU users, just like it says in point 4. As I already explained, the tracker will help you get the exact RTA from start to finish. All you have to do is get, for example, a video editing software, and track the timer from exactly before starting 00:00.00 to where it finally stops once the player completes the scenario, or dies/disconnects. After that, you compare all the RTAs and the one which took longer is the real one. For PS2 you just have to get the initial and final frames for each scenario and follow the same steps explain for EMU users, and there you have the most accurate RTA for them.

NOTE: Maybe all that explaination doesn't need to be a added in a tiny sentence. You can create a thread in the forum explaining how the timing will be done and why all the trackers are needed.

2. "6 - The run must include the names/tags of all players participating, which can be shown either at the beginning or end of the run." It's unnecessary since the names from those players could drastically change from OBSRV to speedrun.com, and you can also use multiple IDs. A better rule would be "The run must start at the lobby and finish at the end screen". If it is really requiered, you can ask people to show the "rules" before starting the game, but I don't think it's needed in any way.

FOR BOTH ONLINE AND OFFLINE:

EMU USERS: I think every single EMU user should show the border of the EMU as Liv and H1dden said. They should also include the controller input, to check there are no macros or turbos. Also, if a run happen to have a lot of FPS freezes, and they are too frequent and inconsistent, this should be a reason to reject a run.

PS2 USERS: They obviously have to follow the rules, but try to not be to tight with the rules with them. There will be a lot of video and audio issues for obvious reasons but if the run is able to be verified and there's no proof of cheating or anything, then it should be verified.

 
 

Yes, which leads us to the same point: the rules need re-work.

For offline runs, the time is tracked until the scenario is over (after the boss animation). And you don't actually lose control of your character since you can still ad-lib. If we followed this, the initial seconds wouldn't count either, same with the shutter "cutscene" in WT, etc.

The time is always tracked during these "cutscenes", and the old Mods always verified them following that. Just another reason why the tracker must be compulsory for EMUs, makes everyone's life easier.

 
 

Nice, at least we got somewhere.

As for the pending runs, this was already debated, both privately and in the forums and they already said they were going to verify them. Also, It would be pretty unfair not to for those who submitted the runs before the old rules were changed, since there was no deadline for the runners.

And again, it has nothing to do with experience. I already explained how to accurately time the runs. Ironically, they asked for a timer and they just verified a run with the wrong time.

 
 

Now re-checking the run I was talking about... Besides not showing two trackers, It was also verified with the wrong time. It is not 2:36, It's 2:39/2:40.

 
 

@TheNevs Literally no one mentioned the IGT for online. It's always been RTA.

 
 

Edit: The run that I talked about that wasn't verified isn't valid because it doesn't have two trackers, not because it doesn't have any trackers. I think I said it didn't have any trackers and for that, my apologies for the confusion.

 

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