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This is literally the last reply to this because I refuse to believe you are being serious. You are either trolling or I don't know. But just looking at your ego with that "Best brazilian speedrunner on" and your way to reply and take opinions as insults is just pathetic, and it gives me a clue about what all this is coming from. Also, amazing way to approach to someone being passive-agressive, as a MOD.

At least you now recognized that the traps affect the IGT and RTA differently. Avoiding the traps and stage fatalities are almost impossible. You either end up performing it on a bot by mistake, or you end up getting caught in one, even fatalities are sometimes triggered by mistake. Why would you ban something that's part of the game? Just use RTA, simple as that.

Also, since you said "If you guys want RTA w/o loads, then just use IGT w/o making fatalities neither using Yellow Marks, the final time result will literally be the SAME thing", do you think that's fair to the guys who already submitted their runs and used the traps and the fatalities? You are just going in circles.

Once again, if the versions differ, make new categories. Use RTA and do NOT count loading times so no one will be affected.

By the way, you clearly knew what Epica meant. You are supposed to finish THIS game as fast as possible. Manipulating the IGT so you get less time than the real one is not part of finishing a game as fast as possible.

Sad that you took our opinions in that way. I also never knew that "lazy" was an insult. Well, keep working with the current IGT so you don't have to go through a lot of work, verifying a 10 minutes run.


Guys, it's not that hard to understand. I never said anything about banning the death traps or anything like that. If you perform a stage fatality, the IGT will stop (or even when you use a normal trap). So, you use RTA so all the animation counts towards the final time. Also, banning fatalities doesn't make sense either. Let people use them, but we need RTA so all that counts too, because fatalities stop the timer as well.

And once again... Since the versions are different, there are several loading times and the run is hardware dependent, let's use RTA. It's fair for everyone, and no, the loading times not necessarily have to count for the final time. You just delete those. As TKK said, you could do the "with loads" / "Without loads" timing. It's not hard work at all. And well, you are the mods after all, you are supposed to verifiy the runs. They last like 10 minutes, it's not that much of a work. There are runs for other games that last hours and they still delete the loading times...

Also, the IGT has nothing to do with the loading times...


Performing an instant kill (stage fatality) stops the IGT, not the RTA. Of course that performing those save time in both ways, but only the IGT stops.

And about the RTA, it's not inconsistent at all. As I said before, you should NOT consider loading times for the final time since the game it's hardware dependent when it comes to this matter. This means that ONLY the fights would count towards the real time.

On the other hand, if the different versions of the game differ from each other, then there should be different categories, one per version.


What he's trying to say, and I agree with him, is that using RTA is far better than the IGT. The IGT is manipulable by performing fatalities or "stage fatalities" in which the timer will stop. This makes no sense for a speedrun since a speedrun consists in finishing a game as fast as possible.

For the RTA, you would remove the loading times and only use the time spent during the fight. This means that the time would count from when the fight starts, until the screen fades at the end of it. By doing this, you make sure that player actually submits the time in which they were actually playing and not a relative time such as the IGT.


I don't know much of this stuff but all I know is that two of the guys who play on PS2 use a hard drive. The other guys and me use the emulators with all that HDD+OPL stuff installed. The loading times vary a lot between all of us. The question would be more about how to properly time the runs when there's a guy in your team who loads faster than you.


Hello. I want to know your opinions about this matter since I don't really know what to do.

When I'm speedrunning, there's a guy in my team that loads faster than me. I tried to calculate the difference and it's about 0.75 seconds. So, what I'm doing to determinate the best time is using the tracker to know when the game starts and when it finishes (I completely ignore the IGT). What I do after I've got RTA is add those 0.7 seconds from the player who loaded first. Determinating if a player is loading faster than the guy who is recording can be easy by comparing their loading times (the tracker is useless for this), which could be used as a hint to know if more time should be added to a run.

The thing is that one doesn't really start the timer at the exact time the game starts and at the exact time it finishes. And this makes me think that the tracker should probably be part of the rules (even tho it's problematic for those who play on a PS2).

By doing this I usually end up adding another second to our runs since I'm not the one who actually loads first. Anyways, this sometimes relies on the word of those who submit the run.

Should I just keep the time from the timer like the rules say? Or should I do what I'm doing that's using the tracker to know when the game starts and finishes, and also adding the time that the fastest loading player was approximately in-game?


Yeah, I completely agree on most of the points. Maybe the rewriting would be the best option. Thanks for your time again.


Hi again.

Exactly, you can't have Kevin only for online runs in File1, that's why I guess they chose the rule "Kevin must be part of the team (this also includes Kevin types)". What I mean is the next thing:

Let's say you just completed Outbreak VH with Kevin, Mark, Cindy and Yoko, and you also got the WR. So, you can submit that very same run to the extension "Kevin - Online - Outbreak". Why? Just because he was part of the team, according to the rules. Now, you can do the exact same thing with Mark, Cindy and Yoko. That's what I find ridiculous. So, my idea would be a male only and female only for at least File1 and make the team play all the scenarios in one single segment, or just completely erase those categories.

And I think we both got confused in some points. What I meant with the sticks is that they are not that good to be banned. However, they are banned ONLY for the main scenarios where they are not really needed (except for Ms White). Anyways, following the rules, a Nathan run would count as a David run. If we had a separate category for the NPCs, then that run with Nathan would only count as a NPC run. Even if you pick the same type of character, they still have different stats and initial items in some cases, making the run unique. The thing is that only having the originals VS only having NPCs makes a huge difference.

Anyways... What I really want to say is that I think that only one segment runs should be submitted and that the categories and rules should be fixed so we prevent having one individual run getting a lot of WRs that are meaningless.

Happy New Year for you too!


Hi! I'll keep the number so we don't get confused.

1.- I already read that thread and still, Kevin is, at least for File1 (in general), the best choice, instead of Mr Gold. However, for eliminations and showdowns, you can pick him, which I don't get why. Ms White on the other hand, might be the best option so far which I would understand the ban (even tho she has really low hp which makes her a dangerous pick). Banning the stick characters will still force you to use other characters, such as Kevin or strong NPCs such as Samuel. The rule would make more sense if all the NPCs were banned. There are more OP NPCs besides Gold and White, and some of them are far better picks than them for some scenarios.

2.- What I meant with BFP was refering to the online run (didn't mention that, sorry). Let's take this sentence as an example: "Kevin must be used in offline or must be part of team in online". So that means that if you got the WR with Kevin in an online run in the main leaderboards, then it directly means you also got the WR for Kevin Online individual level, just because he was part of the team, which I think it's dumb. Now, if that run was made with 4 characters, then each character represent a new WR (mainly for File1 where you can't pick more than one of the same type).

3.- If you actually use fire power on online runs, you could just kill Thanatos being the RM with a magnum or a rocket to its heart which is pretty fast and easy (not so easy for the RL). However, for a melee run, everything is much harder. The hits not being registred, T spamming the jump or the run attack, etc. I don't think that a category that strongly relies on network conditions is really fair. Yes, they all rely on the network condition and the hardware, but making it so lucky based (outside the RNG factor) is just silly for me.

4.- I didn't understand anything you said when you started to talk about the NPC part, sorry. Could you explain it again?

And I think we pretty much share the same ideas in the other points. It's sometimes hard to me explain myself so, sorry for that. But yeah, thanks for taking your time to reply.


Hi. I've been checking the extensions lately and one particular rule for the speedruns and there are things that I personally think don't make sense.

1.- Why are the stick characters banned from the offline main scenarios since they are totally useless when it comes to getting a WR, at least on File1. Yet you can play as them on Eliminations and Showdowns scenarios where they are actually needed (and of course, on online runs too).

2.- Can we delete some categories for the extensions that make no sense? Let's take the current WR for BFP as an example to understand what I mean. That's not only a WR for the main leaderboards for BFP, but it's also a WR for the individual levels categories for David, Kevin, Mark and Yoko, just because they were (or their types were) part of the run. So, that one run already deserves 5 WRs.

An alternative would be females only and male only for File1, and Kevin only and etc for File2, for the online runs.

3.- The melee only category for online runs makes no sense to me. It's not only highly crit dependent (which is fine I guess since it's based on pure RNG), but the main issue is lag. Some hits don't even register and it would be lucky based runs (not actually RNG based). Just take as examples Showdowns against Thanatos, Regis Licker or Stalker.

4.- The stick only category also makes little sense. Mr Gold will be always the main pick. Some people would prefer to pick Ms White, Mr Blue and Green, or maybe even Ms Water depending on the run. But still, they would only pick the OP ones. I think it should be more about NPC only run where there are actually better options and would make the runs a bit more interesting since you would actually need to make a more detailed plan.

5.- I think that only full game runs (play all the scenarios in one segment) should be submitted. This is, again, to avoid one run to automatically get several WRs that make no sense. Same goes for offline runs. This also might make ADMs and MODs life easier since the number of runs submitted would be lower and you would actually have watch only 1 hour per run instead of watching every single individual run for the individual categories AND the full game runs. Not to mention that getting multiple WRs for only 1 run takes very little effort.

6.- I think the best category that hasn't been added yet is the "hard difficulty" one for the main leaderboard.

Sorry for the long comments. I'd like to hear more opinions.


Nice idea. We need hard difficulty please!