Forum posts

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Javascript wire hack simulator courtesy of Deagle

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

I keep forgetting to get this on here but long ago Deagle had created a simulator that approximates the wire hacks in-game as closely as he could for practice when we used to run. I've used it lately to warm up before running Deima to help me not throw away good RNG. It features presets for the various grid layouts in-game as well as custom settings able to create gigantic boards for fun. It also tracks your fastest hack for that session and average time.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22735865/scripts/asw_wire_hack/index.html

I just did 20 tries each of these two presets, try to beat them!

Rydberg Reactor - 4.622 best, 7.518 average

Deima 1 - 2.625 best, 4.159 average

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

Alright, cool, and thanks. I didn't spend too much time on the solo RTA's yet, really... I took about 2 1/2 hours yesterday on the Landing, Deima and Rydberg ones, and tried SynTek several times but that was at the end of my session and it's a bit of a nightmare... I'll do it at a later time.

Deagle and I will get to the co-op at some point, just working on our GDQ run first. We will probably do some of the RTA in between full-game runs with our GDQ path.

If you have any questions about the game or how certain tricks/strategies work you can let me know, I can probably answer mostly anything now that I've been at it for a while.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

Everything is up for RTA now except for... ¤shudders¤... SynTek...

I have to say, it feels good running without Adrenaline. Much faster on the resets, it really keeps the pace up.

Landing Bay is probably the most easily improvable since the hack was not too great, Sewer might be in second place. The hardest is probably Cargo.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

Alright, got them submitted. I also realized the Sewer run was Adrenalineless and comparable so I took a look at that as well. The starting frame isn't as clear as usual since I wasn't making an effort towards that back when I got the run, but it was enough to go on. I compensated by taking time from a frame before the in-game cursor seems to fill in (the secondary telling of the map starting), so it is only off by a max of a frame or two and, if it is, a longer time than it should be. Good baseline to get the level jumpstarted without needing to get a new run first.

It can definitely be improved greatly in RTA since those mistakes matter much more now.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

Hmm, yeah, we'll see how it looks once it gets populated. I was just about to submit the Cargo and Timor times but the dropdowns are still only hh:mm:ss, hopefully you can adjust that without needing to mess with the other categories as well.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

Everything is said and done and now... we are running ASW in AGDQ 2016! I am ready to return immediately to playing this. Tenkei, if you are still around we can compete in RTA as soon as a category is put up. The practice will be useful for me as well.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Alien Swarm... coming to you in AGDQ 2016!

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

It's done guys, deagle and I are running Alien Swarm at AGDQ 2016!! Needless to say we are returning to this game now posthaste to practice our deathless path, finding what interesting and safe things we can improve on before the event, and will very likely improve at least the current co-op full game WR.

The schedule isn't up yet, I'll post again once I know our time slot. Fingers crossed it isn't early in the morning...

 

Forum: Doom 3

Thread: Submitting a run soon, question on rules?

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

If there are separated categories that are clearly labeled as such then that is fine. As it is, having the main category showcasing this much splicing is really painful to watch. I would be happy to submit to an RTA category if we can get that to happen. No harm in having the (massively) segmented runs in their own place for the sake of seeing what a "perfect" run for that person could be.

 

Forum: Doom 3

Thread: Submitting a run soon, question on rules?

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

Hey guys, I will be hopefully submitting to this game soonish.

I noticed in the current 1h24m run that it is badly abusing quickloading, and the loading screens from those loads are removed. Should that really be allowed? It isn't real time anymore, anybody could get an amazing run eventually if they are allowed to essentially splice the best parts of each level together. I really, really don't like that and I am not running with quickload abuse.

It is acceptable, I think, if you have to absorb the full loading time, but cutting it like that seems a bit ridiculous. Honestly I would prefer if the category didn't allow quicksaving at all, but at the least if you do allow it keep it to real-time instead of splicing.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

I ran a few levels today for IGT and two of them have no Adrenaline so I can also use them for RTA! After doing some actual runs I personally like using the name changing version of the start over the oval cursor. All I have to do is brush over my portrait before starting the run.

My Cargo is going to be 1:00.999 (hah...)

My Timor will be 2:26.135 (so close to 1:25!)

For now you could potentially compete with those if you'd like to start practicing. I'll have to get a hold of Onin to get the category up soon and work out the final draft of the rules.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

I have checked the load on each level and it is indeed very consistent. I am not sure if you noticed but the two bolded sentences in my post above are links to example videos that you could pull and check the frames of personally if you wanted to get an idea of what I'm looking at. I am 100% confident that, at least on my system, this is a good way to get the exact frame. If anybody has a much slower computer (maybe also running on an HDD?) feel free to test it yourself to ensure it works on low-end systems as well. It should. I don't have the means to try it myself.

I did also just notice that the character name in the upper-right changed from, for example, "Vegas" to your own name on the same frame the game starts, so that's another way you can find the starting frame. Either that or the oval cursor filling in works fine. The name thing is only effective if your character portrait is the last element you've moused over before starting, though, but turns out it does enable you to tell when the map has started even when the fade in takes forever. Something to keep in mind.

Still not entirely sure how to work the rules since, although this is completely consistent, it's a bit weird to try and explain. Is it possible to link to an image within the rules? If I could make an image with the empty cursor and the filled in cursor side-by-side and say "here, the cursor should look like this" that would probably be best. At least for now I think we both know what to do, though, but if anybody else new comes along they will need some guidance. Do make sure you check those two links up there to make sure you know what I mean by the oval cursor getting "filled in"

I'll be getting on these new RTA runs after we get our GDQ submission in and in the meantime I might try to take a moment to take back some IGT records and especially practice the new strategies. I'm probably going to start being careful that I start the level properly so future solo runs from now on that don't use Adrenaline can be submitted to RTA as well. I'll probably have a Cargo run to submit first.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

I had a thought and checked the cursor on start again, so I have a little bit of an update to report.

I remembered that I was sometimes clicking start game so quickly after the map loads that I was already moving long before the menu actually faded out. It turns out this hides the in-game cursor and makes it impossible to tell when it actually started. Very easy fix, though... we would just have to wait an extra second or two for it to catch up before starting. I have no idea why it does that and it is hard to explain how that works. Examining the frames more I can clearly see I start moving when the oval cursor "fills in", as in has its dot in the center and all, so it's definitely a good indication, just need to wait out that weird fading bug. Let me upload two short examples since it's hard to explain.

Example of how it should be. Working as intended. You can see that, after hitting start game, the oval cursor appears. Neither the map nor movement has started yet. You can then, slightly after, see the oval cursor get filled in with a few extra bits including the dot. You can barely see through the fading out that I initiate moving just as that happens. This works well.

Unusable, impossible to tell when it started. In this one you can see that I start game quickly after reloading the map and by the time the menu finally starts fading out the cursor has filled in and I've long been moving upwards. If I had waited a second or two the fading out wouldn't take nearly this long.

It's unfortunate the game needs to make this a bit complicated but it's an easy enough workaround to just wait a little bit. Hopefully older computers don't do something weird where the fading out takes longer, but at least on my system which is all I'm able to test it is working well. I tried to find a console command to in some way disable this menu fading to make things easier but had no luck finding anything. Oh well.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

After some experimenting I have a new proposal for the start/stop times.

Not all levels show a box being ticked for the final objective once you reach the exit. It seems only Landing Bay and Timor Station does this for some reason. I see another nice and clear indication, though. I do not want to go by your character stopping because there seems to be a slight deceleration when you lose control where you do continue moving slightly before it actually comes to a stop.

Looking at the Timor ending, the same frame where the objective ticks is the same frame where a few other things happen graphically. Your little white menu cursor reappears on your mouse position and the radar effects on the map disappear. These all happen in the single frame. This seems to clearly be when it is actually stopping control and transitioning to the mission complete menu and should be our stopping point.

Additionally, this helps to know when to start as well. There is a frame where the in-game oval cursor suddenly pops in (slightly after hitting start game), so I am assuming that, like the end when the small white menu cursor reappears when control is lost, control is probably gained when the in-game oval cursor is popping up. This actually means my full-game times have been counted with slightly more time than they should... oh well, not important there.

Anyway, short draft version for how the rules would be stated,

"Time starts on the first frame the in-game oval cursor appears. Time ends on the first frame the small white menu cursor reappears."

My final thought now before we're ready to run this officially is what framerate these frames should be counted in, although this is minor to the time in the end. I don't know SDA rules but since I record at 60FPS, that could potentially give me a single frame advantage ending the run sooner than 30FPS? I am not sure if the beginning will also be offset a frame later and it won't matter. Maybe this is just complicating things... if you don't care about framerate then I'm fine with not worrying about what the recording is either considering each frame at 60FPS is worth a paltry 16ms anyway. Just trying to be thorough.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

Yes, sorry, that is what I meant when I had said "it would naturally disallow stims". Perhaps it was poor wording. I meant that, since they would massively count against your time, they are as good as disallowed since nobody would dare to take that time loss anyway.

As mentioned, if we find some crazy hard strategy that we just can't get without them they should be able to be used with no problem.

EDIT: The only thing left now is to figure out exactly which frames we want to start and stop the count. When figuring out the full-game run times I have been ending on the frame where Timor's final objective is completed as that seems to be the moment control is lost. I will need to see if that is always the case in other levels as well. For the start, I have been counting from the first frame where the "start game" button gets blurry which is the moment the click registers. I am unsure if this is actually when the level is starting as you can move before the screen fades in and I have no idea how else to tell.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Instant hacks

Started by: OninOnin

While I can't say for 100% certain, I am pretty sure to memory I saw them lined up with one moving away when I was running Landing Bay a while ago.

Too bad I don't still have the recording to see that...

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

Yup, I've been chatting with Onin through this and we have the difficulties taken out now. It was really only there to begin with because they weren't sure if Easy could be faster, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Regardless if it ever were faster, that wouldn't matter anyway. Everybody would just run Easy.

Onin is not interested in running a new RTA category himself, but it certainly seems you are, Tenkei.

I would be interested in creating a new category in place of where Easy was listed that counts the frames for RTA times, which will of course also naturally disallow stims because slowness unless we find some new incredibly difficult strategy that we just can't do without them, in which case they seem fair game since they considerably slow things down (probably will never happen anyway).

Onin said he would consider this new category if we both plan to run it. I think we have a plan?

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

Hello! I am not familiar with you guys myself although five years ago our team had run more for fun than to be seriously competitive and didn't look much into the scene itself.

Interesting comment about adrenaline breaking the timer. I have yet to try running the exact same path with and without adrenaline, That would be a problem if there were a bug. Under what circumstances does this usually happen? I would be interested in testing it to see what kind of results the timer comes out with.

I had recently mentioned that we are going to have a bunch of tied times soon and 1 second is a pretty massive amount of time to go by, we should really start counting frames I feel. Now, counting frames with adrenaline would be difficult. I wonder if there should be some new adrenalineless category for this purpose that's more like the "main" category of the game. It would let us preserve all of the current runs but keep a more specific time that better shows differences in runs.

I am not sure I agree with co-op mostly because it seems irrelevant with the current setup. Two players are already sufficient apparently for everything but SynTek, which is the only outlier. If there were more varied strategies than there is then maybe, but all more players do for the most part is add dead weight right now.

I do also agree with the difficulty categories. Now that we've refined things quite a bit it does seem clear there is no need for really anything but Brutal to be there. It is probably worthwhile now to just condense it and not bother listing difficulty at all; Full-game runs already work this way.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: 4-player co-op team

Started by: OninOnin

We actually already tried that and the demos completely break once a death happens. Something about the slow motion is captured really badly when the gameplay is played back, it will return view to the player recording but then everything moves in ridiculously slow motion and might be stopped completely. I even tried using the recording tools to skip to the tick after the death happens figuring if it doesn't play through the death it will be alright but it was still broken. Unfortunate.

We had demo problems five years ago as well but it wasn't as bad since we weren't using death abuse back then. Everything rubberbands when Adrenaline is used but it clears up once the effect wears off. You can see that in most of our old recordings that has any hacking.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: 4-player co-op team

Started by: OninOnin

Hmm, I may have gotten it wrong again... that is my account name and I think that has not shown in the past as well. I can never remember which they go by when searching for people. I'll just add you now, then.

For the voice, yeah, we definitely couldn't do it without voice communication ourselves, we've been using it for our group for many years now. I actually don't see a way to not record the audio stream of certain applications when recording with OBS so I don't have much choice or I may have considered disabling the voices. But, I don't know, it adds flair to the video anyway? It works alright I think.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: 4-player co-op team

Started by: OninOnin

To return to the topic of 4-player co-op, now that I have had the chance to play with and talk with mr.deagle about it he's up for trying at least SynTek to see what we can get.

I noticed in your videos that you guys are using text to communicate in-game. Do you or have you used any voice stuff to communicate? We use Mumble frequently and would like to all communicate on our server there.

You can add me on Steam if you want to talk about it more, themaster627.