Forum posts

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: In game time

Started by: YetiYeti

Since this thread seems to be related to one I was wanting to make, I'll resurrect this instead.

While talking about differences between the older and newer version of the game I was collecting data on how long my loads are through Dead Center (times printed at the bottom here), and somebody was mentioning how quick they are compared to his,

Originally posted by CrayonsThat such short loading times, are you using an SSD? That sounds insane, that would chop a good 40 seconds off my solo runs o.o

I am indeed using two SSD's raided. Honestly, using RTA and counting load times I have quite the unfair advantage on the leaderboards in a way that is not influenced by the skill of any runner whatsoever, simply by my hardware. It seems to make the most sense to discount the loading screens when submitting the final time to close this potentially large disparity between runners. It should probably be cut when the spinning loading wheel shows in the corner, up to the first frame where you can see your character in the next level, although I haven't researched the consistency of this myself so other places to cut could be more effective, but this makes the most sense written down right now.

In the example for that guy, loading 40 seconds slower which could be the case when using an HDD compared to raided SSD's, it becomes essentially impossible for somebody such as himself to compete with somebody such as myself based on loads alone and that seems pretty unfair.

This change can be made retroactively to runs already submitted although it would take a bit of work. Really, not every run would need to be adjusted, just the top whatever times as the rest, let's be honest, just aren't fast enough to justify the time spent fixing them and will get cycled out as better times are submitted anyway. Or they can all be adjusted, either way.

As for how it is counted in co-op, I support restarting the timer as soon as the first person loads in. I'm not sure how else to do it, and it will be close enough to work, even if the other players take a few extra seconds. Perhaps somebody else will have a better suggestion, but it's a fine place to start, I think.

Thoughts, anybody? Also, here are those load times through Dead Center as mentioned, all levels in order and loaded by noclipping to each saferoom after loading into Hotel from a fresh game start:

Originally posted by TheMasterMy best loading times on the newest version launched via Steam are as follows, taken in order from Hotel onwards:

11.03, 6.90, 7.00, 6.26

Version 2.0.0.8 has come out with these times, taken under the same circumstances...

8.03, 3.33, 3.73, 2.16

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Access to early versions?

Started by: zpqpzpqp

Originally posted by CrayonsThat such short loading times, are you using an SSD? That sounds insane, that would chop a good 40 seconds off my solo runs o.o

Yup, two (pretty fast) 128gb SSD's that were handed down from my father are raided together for my main partition.

Originally posted by DarkosThe 2.0.0.8 is the worst version ever so and atm i'm thinking about to do a IGT If it's possible

Hmm, why do you say it's the worst version, just because of the issues? It's going alright, although the menu crash is certainly annoying. I'd use 2.0.2.7 or something if it comes without those issues but I'm not sure what the differences between them are.

Also, I do find it odd myself that loading times are included in the run times since it can create a pretty big disparity between runners that has nothing to do with the skill of actually running the game. I have a bit of an advantage already with the SSD's I am running, and it really should be time without loads. I may create a new thread to foster a discussion on that, actually, if I can't find one that has already taken place.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Access to early versions?

Started by: zpqpzpqp

By the way, are the loading times in 2.0.0.8 known to be ridiculous?

Oh, no, I don't mean ridiculously long... I mean ridiculously short. I had already taken measurements of my Dead Center loading times on the newest version to compare differences across different settings and local server to dedicated servers.

My best loading times on the newest version launched via Steam are as follows, taken in order from Hotel onwards:

11.03, 6.90, 7.00, 6.26

Version 2.0.0.8 has come out with these times, taken under the same circumstances...

8.03, 3.33, 3.73, 2.16

That's massive! I am almost loading Atrium in under 2 seconds! No complaints here but what is going on?

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Access to early versions?

Started by: zpqpzpqp

Originally posted by BiggieBenI'm PM'ing you on twitch right now @TheMaster

Thanks! I have it up and running now. When I first went in-game there were some odd audio issues, there was a corrupted white noise sound on certain effects such as cracking legs from a high fall and when I killed bots, and I could tell bass was not what it should have been. I ran snd_updateaudiocache and it seems to have solved it.

It is crashing after going in-game and and then returning to the main menu, but that isn't a big deal since I have yet to find a crash while in-game and probably won't need to return to the main menu anyway.

Finally, after having run the older version and then attempting to run the newest off of my Steam library, it closed the game when getting to the menu with an error that stated Steam needed to be running to start the game. A restart of Steam solved that.

Figured I'd list a few problems I worked through in case anybody comes by with something similar, especially for the audio issue.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Access to early versions?

Started by: zpqpzpqp

Hey there, I may try out solo runs and will need 2.0.0.8. Can anybody hook a Master up with that?

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Autobhop exploit

Started by: mike01530mike01530

The purpose of speedrunning is to complete the game as quickly as your skill allows, measured against other players completing it as quickly as their skill allows them. To automate an aspect of the game with an outside source, one that would create such a giant time margin as to make it an absolute requirement to use to compete in any way in speedrunning the game, to entirely remove a large portion of that skill discrepancy between players that could mean the difference between who places first, second, third, and so on, is just wrong. It is about completing the game on ¤your¤ skill, not how well you can use a script. Removing the rule to open up the main category in a way that requires using a script to compete would entirely kill my motivation to run it. Every trick and mistake made that influences the end time should be on my own input, my own skill in how quickly I am able to complete the game.

What is wrong with being a purist for the main category of the game? That seems the only way it should be run, modifiers are reserved for other categories, to give another way of finishing the game, whatever way that may be as they can range wildly from game to game.

The script should never have been written in the first place and the categories requiring its use should have never been made. As it is now, a tool was made to allow easy exploitation, handed to anybody that wants it with a sign saying "use this for an advantage!". It is being invited in and should be removed entirely to lessen the chance of anybody even getting the idea of utilizing it and the creator should be ashamed for making such a powerful exploit that accessible.

I don't see any solution besides hoping for the best, regardless of whatever fear you have that somebody, at some point, who knows when, would exploit it. Allowing it to be used freely, well, I already explained that and it shouldn't need to be said. Not allowing bunnyhopping even manually is even more impossible to police and still removes that skill from the game, although all things considered is probably the lesser of all the evils so far.

The way I see it, the leaderboards have been up for some time, and plenty of runs have been posted that really don't look to be exploiting the script. If it hasn't been a problem through all of this time, it isn't worth turning everything on its head out of a fear that at some unknown point in the future one guy or group will come into a game that isn't too popular to speedrun to take a spot not many people will notice.

Even if the script ¤is¤ exploited, considering how much somebody will have to conceal it, it will likely not make a large impact, certainly not to the degree allowing the script at all times would. I know "eh if they do it whatevs, won't be used much anyway" is another terrible solution in a theme of all terrible solutions, hence my saying it's been working all this time and to let it go.

In summary, there is no good solution, disallowing bunnyhopping in general is the least of the evils presented in my opinion, but it's been functional all this time and isn't worth a fear that at an unknown point it could be a problem who knows.

These are my last words in the debate, take them as you'd like. Just one Master's opinion.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Hello! New to the leaderboard and working on runs, questions about some stuff

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

Thank you. The co-op WR will be incoming any day now. Hopefully our new activity on the leaderboards will encourage more submissions as well since there is quite a bit of room for improvement.

Also, I've added my Twitch to my profile. Did not realize I never filled that in.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Dark Carnival Finale Bug

Started by: MawfeenMawfeen

Understood. Guess I was a bit late to the party.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: SGDQ Submission for Left 4 Dead 2

Started by: CrayonsCrayons

Originally posted by mr.deagleFor most games, like Nasood stated, the GDQ committee does not want to have them run in two consecutive events.

Indeed, I've always wondered exactly what they had considered consecutive events since they do treat AGDQ and SGDQ as separate entities which, as far as I am aware, even have different people heading each one. Do they consider AGDQ to be consecutive with AGDQ, or the SGDQ following? Hopefully next AGDQ will be enough of a gap in the end, and I think seeing far better times submitted than was put into this previous AGDQ will probably help its case as well.

Originally posted by mr.deagleFor what it's worth, due partly to the poor reception of the previous GDQ run, many people want the next one to be on at least Expert. The Master, I, and two others intend to submit a run for AGDQ 2017 together.

Awesome, good luck to you guys and I hope you can put in a great run! I'll be rooting for you all.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Autobhop exploit

Started by: mike01530mike01530

Originally posted by mr.deagle For example, would the beginning of this video raise any eyebrows?

You can have the coaster. I can hit that Dead Center 2 beginning ramp almost every time and you can never take that away from me! Never!

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Dark Carnival Finale Bug

Started by: MawfeenMawfeen

While my partner and I were running last night Mawfeen was in my stream and informed me of this bug. We are currently playing on the most recent version and I can confirm it works just the same there. Very handy when doing a full game run without four players!

As for the debate earlier on about people being able to kick the bots and abuse it, what's the difference? It is very obvious that this bug is being executed, you can see where they are incapped and they are always kicked as the finale starts. There is no other way to kick them that wouldn't be immediately noticeable since this bug is so specific.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Hello! New to the leaderboard and working on runs, questions about some stuff

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

Oh, also, we finally figured out the Pipes and Molotovs. It turns out we had the timing right, we were just aiming them too high up, causing it to push us up and then back down. We aim high for biles and didn't realize the same couldn't work for the others since they don't explode on contact. That certainly makes the skips far easier when we don't have to rely on bile spawn RNG!

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Hello! New to the leaderboard and working on runs, questions about some stuff

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

I weighed some options and took your advice in using my GPU to encode. I have a system in place now to stream and record locally that seems to be working well. I'm using the older OBS (which oddly isn't dropping stream) with NVENC instead of x264 to stream, and OBS Studio with x264 at a far higher bitrate for a much nicer and clean local recording with no splits.

We may try out the older version, if you can send me a message about it on Twitch it would be appreciated.

For now, we are submitting a run we just got tonight of 1:10:21 on the newest version, highlighted here,
... it went so well until a reset in Swamp Fever 2 1:30 in! The cheats you see toggled on and off at the beginning cutscene of Dead Center is for the purpose of resets for bot killing, setting the server back to expert and bypassing the vote timer to vote easy because we can't avoid the vote wait timer in this version while resetting the run and would otherwise have to changelevel and then suicide every reset which isn't a problem after the run gets going. Far easier to use the console. If we switch to the older version we'll finally be able to vote freely, so that would be much more convenient.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Hello! New to the leaderboard and working on runs, questions about some stuff

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

Thanks, we've been making steady progress over the past couple of weeks in practice. Our best possible according to splits went under 1:04 today, so we just need to get a nice run in eventually. We've already done a duo 1:08 but it was with bot kicks, we're working on voting difficulty and killing them to get a submittable run now. It is very likely we will turn in a 2-man first as the other members in our group need more practicing time first before a nice 4-man will be possible.

Wow, I didn't know that the older version could save so much time... I'll have to check some runs on that version and see what is different.

We have indeed tried the pipes/molotovs upwards of 200 or more times in total now between the four of us, probably, and don't feel any closer to getting it consistently. I was hoping we were missing some sure-fire setup... hmm. At least biles are workable for now.

Hah, wow, there is some very interesting stuff in that video... the amount of common jumps seems to be pretty crazy. Thanks for the resource, I'll look around the channel.

I've also been streaming our sessions although the stream looks to be up very inconsistently and I am not sure why, OBS Studio seems to be failing me... nothing particularly impressive being shown yet, we are making plenty of mistakes still while working on the run but are improving in consistency as we go along.

Also, Rawrica, I noticed you said something in my chat earlier today but I didn't catch it until a bit later. Thank you for wishing us luck.

 

Forum: Left 4 Dead 2

Thread: Hello! New to the leaderboard and working on runs, questions about some stuff

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

Wanted to drop in and say hi. My friends and I are very familiar with L4D2 already but had never tried to speedrun it. We attended AGDQ 2016 and ran Alien Swarm as well as watched the L4D2 run there which inspired us to run it ourselves and we plan to submit for AGDQ 2017 assuming it is in a good location for us to attend again.

In the meantime, we have been brushing up on the tricks and working on placing in the leaderboard, aiming for the top.

First, how much time would you all estimate the older version of the game really saves over the newest? We have not reverted and are still very competitive, and have noticed the current top time is on the newest version, so for right now it doesn't seem likely we will go through the trouble of reverting but I am curious as to how much faster it can potentially be.

Second, does anybody have tips on getting the molotov/pipe bomb throwable boost? We have biles down very consistently since they are easy, but molotovs/pipes are giving us a lot of trouble and we just can't seem to get them working consistently.

Besides that, are there any tricks, even if they are difficult, that aren't showcased in the current co-op WR shown that we should take a look at? So far that has mostly been my reference but I would like to look at any other good sources for more if they exist.

Thanks for reading and answering! We'll see you guys at the top.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Alien Swarm... coming to you in AGDQ 2016!

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

I leave tomorrow to meet up with friends and then we are three short days away from our run. Where does the time go! They have posted the official schedule at this new link, and we are now at 9:05pm EST. Follow the link to see times in your local timezone,

https://gamesdonequick.com/schedule

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Alien Swarm TSA Project

Started by: OninOnin

Oh, blah, I forgot about that. I think you've mentioned it before too. Oh well... maybe there's something else I've forgotten about.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Alien Swarm TSA Project

Started by: OninOnin

Hmm, interesting. I'm not sure I would advise finding a way to remove the CHEATS USED text since that would open an entire can of worms to confirming the validity of runs. I doubt it's possible anyway, and the frames can be timed so it isn't really a big deal.

I'm not sure if I'll submit any actual runs for this, but I may check a few tricks if I get the chance. Definitely not until after we finish up with AGDQ, though. There is an insane OOB at the start of Landing Bay I found a while ago that we don't dare try in real-time because it's basically impossible, but it should save quite a bit of time in a solo run (might not save any in co-op). That is the first thing that comes to mind.

Good luck!

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Rules and Categories

Started by: TenkeiTenkei

Submitted a few new things while practicing for AGDQ starting soon.

So, how goes those runs Tenkei, anything to report? It's been pretty lonely over here for a while.

 

Forum: Alien Swarm

Thread: Alien Swarm... coming to you in AGDQ 2016!

Started by: TheMasterTheMaster

The schedule is mostly settled now, still changing slightly as people drop, but we are slotted at the moment for the 5th at 9:25pm EST.

Here is the work in progress schedule, they will probably have an official one soon:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_gibuPSqCLOY8HruYJ15OYGGkFfth0IevIi7fE9Xp2E/pubhtml