Forum posts

20.11.
Individual levels
ILs will be coming back from tomorrow onwards as I will have time to fill them in with basic stuff.
If you really wonder why this whole shit-show happened, go listen to me talk for 1 hour here - https:/​/​www.​speedrun.​com/​doom1/​thread/​fspli/​1#kha18

Rules for ILs will now be more strict, with WR submissions (or tied WR submissions) requiring demo files to prove run's legitimacy. As for bigger categories this will also be the case (but might also be locked on time that you end up getting). It is done on a basic logic that if you happen to get run which is exceptionally good by larger community standarts you should also provide according artifact - demo file.

Non vanilla-compatible source ports will be instantly getting rejected from now on. All "might"s in rulesets are gonna be changed into "will"s.

This process will take some time and will bring ILs for Ultimate Doom, Doom II and eventually Final Doom, since the latter had the lowest popularity.

gzdoom emulates game on a completely different level, usage it for speedrunning is highly not recommended, except for wads made specificly for it. For best speedrunning experience you should try prboom/glboom or crispy doom.

My way too late response to things I've done.

tl;dr - I am regretting what I've done. I don't expect you to agree with me or understand my personal takes, while I hope you can understand this reasoning. ILs are coming back, rules are going to change in certain way.

ye, secrets aren't required, my bad

there's one thread on this already - https:/​/​www.​speedrun.​com/​doom1/​thread/​mxkas , where everything was said and extra conclusion was made by me not so long ago
No need to create extra threads, while I do appreciate your effort going extra mile creating this wall of text, this topic is way more complicated than you might be seeing it.

I agree. While it was expressed to "why" it happened, it was also overreaction on my end to getting annoyed with all talk on that topic, so when "nuking LBs" was proposed for like 3rd time - I did actually went with it, cause I got annoyed.

Truth be told - those who actually care about doom came to discord and started doing runs and became good at it to the point of high competiteveness. While srcom page definetelly died off completely.

Looking back - I should've done something different, enforce extra rules. But it was also time when I didn't have much time to do this stuff and noone else (who's eligible enough for it) wanted to do anything with this mess.

So I might think of something in upcoming time, cause I want it to be accurate, but I also want this page to be more alive. Maybe bit by bit it will come back. Maybe I'll ignore the hell out of it.

As to how you submit .lmp to srcom - upload to dropbox or some other cloud service and put a link in description.

https:/​/​www.​youtube.​com/​channel/​UCqcYluu5zm7uqBNGL8kextA You can watch this YT, if you want ILs, it has all up-to-date IWADs and more.

It is built in into livesplit

22 Sep 2019

Categories have been updated to represent newly added campaign - Bright Island.
IL table will get updated, when I get to see all level names.

I'd propose making loadless timer main timing method, since it is more consistent.
That's pretty much it :v)

Unfortunately you can't really have one without another and have that run "accepted" by general doom community. You can record demo only and then produce video out of it later, with prboom+. And demo goes as primary source of info. For visual stuff there is ofc "DSDA on YT" youtube channel, ran by Zero Master, which uploads relevant WRs from time to time. Also as story tells - most people care for WRs only, and rarely care about ILs, unless they are told "HEY THIS IS GOOD" (examples would be - shock's 8s e1m1 or Looper's Chasm, since Karl Jobst made indepth videos on those). And even less people care for WADs outside of publically known ID software releases.

As for longer runs, there usually is a video provided anyway, since it is completely understandable, that 99.999% of people who watch speedruns, won't even check what's going on on dsda or doomworld. So you'll see big runs instantly ported to YT, and there still is nothing wrong with it. But this video comes from demo and demo is the only source of truth, so we just can't ignore this forever.

Question goes - should we "enforce" both video and demo to allow run to be hosted on speedruncom, due to how many people just click pages and watch stuff, and unless it is a video, they won't bother; or should we allow demo-only submissions. And I already said my take on that in another thread.

Okay, this seem to be a problem at the moment and I kinda have a different take here, so let me go all out.

While speedruncom doom page is merely a small fracture of doom speedruns it would nice to understand what and why is being done. Also for reason of this actually being related to doom speedrunning in general some rules have to be applied in one way or another.

As of right now demos aren't a necessity, however they help moderators to verify your runs on many levels (sourceport, actual stats, input check for weird behavior, such as auto sr50 and so on). Also by creating a demo you create an actual legit entry into actual doom leaderboards, doesn't matter if the category that you run marked as Other in dsda.

While I do understand that some of you might be unwilling to go extra step, I'd have to politely ask you - record demos for your runs AND only use listed sourceports. It is generally accepted practice. You wouldn't go to, let's say, GTA leaderboards and then submit run with framelimiter off (banned by rules, if you wonder) and then provide an excuse on why it should stay there and why it won't affect leaderboards.

Many games require you to go extra step, like downpatching or upgrading to certain version, which is especially annoying with console games. And the only reason why I can see demos - an extra step - being annoying to you - not doing that before. It has way more positives than you might even think of:
1) It doesn't require any processing power. Which allows you to do runs on shittiest PCs possible and then still get it to perfect quality with 2)
2) It can be converted into a video with prboom features. Which allows for whatever visual quality standard exists in current day and age, be that 2k,8k,256k or something else.
3) It can be studied with TAS tools, such as xdre, where you can learn what you do wrong, learn how to adjust your inputs. Greatest example I can name is current D2ALL WR-holder Looper. He does study his failed attempts during stream which is extemely important on that high-end performance.
4) And then it also does provide all the info about your run, more than you can imagine, which legitemises your run.

If you aren't getting top time, then I personally really don't care for how you record your run to these leaderboards. But if you manage to get 1st place in whatever category you run - having a demo not only would contribute greatly to everyone, but will also help to prove how exactly do you got that first place. Also if you are capable of doing actual top-tier runs - why not legitemise them by community standards? Make you stand out. Before ILs were removed, some new runners, who appeared from speedruncom leaderboards got actual WRs in categories that stood for decades!

That isn't made for leaderboards to make you feel annoyed. That is being made for leaderboards to be 100% valid. You can still record your videos and submit them to provide an easy way of "consumind media". But please, do record demos. While currently it isn't a necessity on speedruncom - it will become eventually.

Now with that out of the way, let me quickly address the m8 confusion.
I've been getting runs without m8 in a past, and even though I think it is quite clear written in a rules, that map 8 must be finished unless stated otherwise, it isn't quite clear why that is the thing to some people, even though, yet again, it is explained in a rules, that "if your run doesn't use saves/loads then final In-Game time - sum of level times (can be seen at the end of a level, certain sourceports do count sum for you aswell) except map 8 UNLESS stated otherwise by subcategory rules (Such Compete-N rules for that, we not gonna bother, even though you can time it with certain sourceports)".
This has been a historical issue, which ONLY exists in Compete-N entries. In that case it really is Ultimate Doom only. Back in a day, old sourceports were going to intermission screen after m8, as result it wasn't possible to get actual time. Even though it isn't a case anymore, Ultimate Doom is Compete-N "entry" and to avoid any confusion on what's considered WR by community and what's not, we just apply that ruleset here for consistensy. That is why m8 have to be completed even if it doesn't count to your final time. (Maybe dsdarchive will fix that issue, by splitting UD runs into CN and other entries, I have no clue).

I'm not gonna lock this thread, you can ask questions about demos or m8 related stuff here.

09.07.
Individual levels
ILs have been removed from speedruncom for Ultimate Doom, Doom II, TNT, Plutonia. Reasoning in corresponding thread. https:/​/​www.​speedrun.​com/​doom1/​thread/​fspli

Without further ado - We are removing the IL leaderboards.

--- Reasoning ---

1) The speedrun.com boards are incomplete
- Example picked at random: Ultimate Doom E1M4 Max has 2 entries on speedrun.com, but 36 on dsda

2) Their existence leads to confusion. There is an expectation that they are the source of truth when it comes to doom speedrunning. As mentioned above, this is not true.

3) Authenticity - doom speedrunning has various important requirements to prove the authenticity of runs. Among them, using compatible source ports and recording demos. These are fundamental in the community and the speedrun.com boards aren't really set up to serve this purpose.

4) It's a poor investment to expend lots of effort maintaining a board that is actually a mirror of another board, but simultaneously only a tiny subset.

5) The speedrun.com boards are missing lots of relevant categories (as a necessary result of 4)

--- Summary ---

The speedrun.com page is nice for casual players or as a landing page for people coming in from google or elsewhere on the site, but not really the place for serious competition.

Runners interested in working on ILs would be best served by joining the doom speedrunning community proper, either in the discord or on the doomworld forums.

ILs for Ultimate Doom/Doom II/Plutonia/TNT can be found on corresponding pages on http:/​/​doomedsda.​us/​ (and eventually on https:/​/​dsdarchive.​com/​ as it is still under construction).

Without further ado - We are removing the IL leaderboards.

--- Reasoning ---

1) The speedrun.com boards are incomplete
- Example picked at random: Ultimate Doom E1M4 Max has 2 entries on speedrun.com, but 36 on dsda

2) Their existence leads to confusion. There is an expectation that they are the source of truth when it comes to doom speedrunning. As mentioned above, this is not true.

3) Authenticity - doom speedrunning has various important requirements to prove the authenticity of runs. Among them, using compatible source ports and recording demos. These are fundamental in the community and the speedrun.com boards aren't really set up to serve this purpose.

4) It's a poor investment to expend lots of effort maintaining a board that is actually a mirror of another board, but simultaneously only a tiny subset.

5) The speedrun.com boards are missing lots of relevant categories (as a necessary result of 4)

--- Summary ---

The speedrun.com page is nice for casual players or as a landing page for people coming in from google or elsewhere on the site, but not really the place for serious competition.

Runners interested in working on ILs would be best served by joining the doom speedrunning community proper, either in the discord or on the doomworld forums.

ILs for Ultimate Doom/Doom II/Plutonia/TNT can be found on corresponding pages on http:/​/​doomedsda.​us/​ (and eventually on https:/​/​dsdarchive.​com/​ as it is still under construction).

Without further ado - We are removing the IL leaderboards.

--- Reasoning ---

1) The speedrun.com boards are incomplete
- Example picked at random: E1M4 Max has 2 entries on speedrun.com, but 36 on dsda

2) Their existence leads to confusion. There is an expectation that they are the source of truth when it comes to doom speedrunning. As mentioned above, this is not true.

3) Authenticity - doom speedrunning has various important requirements to prove the authenticity of runs. Among them, using compatible source ports and recording demos. These are fundamental in the community and the speedrun.com boards aren't really set up to serve this purpose.

4) It's a poor investment to expend lots of effort maintaining a board that is actually a mirror of another board, but simultaneously only a tiny subset.

5) The speedrun.com boards are missing lots of relevant categories (as a necessary result of 4)

--- Summary ---

The speedrun.com page is nice for casual players or as a landing page for people coming in from google or elsewhere on the site, but not really the place for serious competition.

Runners interested in working on ILs would be best served by joining the doom speedrunning community proper, either in the discord or on the doomworld forums.

ILs for Ultimate Doom/Doom II/Plutonia/TNT can be found on corresponding pages on http:/​/​doomedsda.​us/​ (and eventually on https:/​/​dsdarchive.​com/​ as it is still under construction).

4 July 2019

RTA without loads added as a more universal timing method and middleground between IGT and RTA. Currently load-removing tool for livesplit is in resources section, after it will be finalized it will be available in livesplit Edit splits menu. (Not sure if current one works with TSE). When using tool, launch livesplit AFTER you launch Serious Sam or you'll get an error and game will close.

Rules were rewritten in a more clear way. Also changed rule of FPS change, as it was agreed upon between runners in discussion long ago (EmeraldWolf even got run with console FPS change since then). Current wording is: Using gfx_iMaxFPSActive to limit your maximum FPS is allowed. Changing it during the run is also allowed. Using other console commands during the run is NOT allowed.

This thread will represent all rulechanges made to game, so that it is clear why and what chages over time.

I am baffled how default light theme looks as eyesoaring as possible. I have absolutely no idea why would you lock layout "customisation" to night mode only (granted most people use night mode, but this seems like doubling-down on a "haha light theme users" meme) - add second customisation there!

Game "customisation" is completely non-existant if you use light theme, like, why?! Why can't you just force whoever enters game page to have their view changed to what's set ON A GAME PAGE, like it was before? If you don't like having "ugly" pages - make a toggle in a series menu or in a profile settings with "allow game themes to override your own" or something of that sort and never see them again!

I'm also completely didn't know that banner color change is only available for those who donated (that's what I'm getting from messages). That is such a bad move it makes me believe all the companies say about "PLAYER'S CHOICE" when add microtransactions to a game that shouldn't have them in first place! So - unless I'm getting something wrong out of this thread - at least custom preset of banner colors should be available for any user.

As for UI and font changes - I like those. But all that customisation issues that you have can be fixed with literally one flag (I know that's more code than just 1 line, but that won't make 90% of userbase mad or at least upset).