Forums  /  Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts  /  Don't limit runs
  Lunatix

First any% should be the bad ending it will make more sense to me. You should at least rename the actual category to "good ending" and create another called "bad ending". And if you want in each category you could add all the different levels of difficulty. Thank you.

roni77nf and MooX like this. 
  Aquas

I'd prefer to keep it simple for Super Ghouls n Ghosts, myself. "Bad ending" doesn't make sense. There is no bad ending, period. 2 loops completes the game and receives the credits. I know that the Ghosts n Goblins leaderboard has 1 loop category available, but I don't think that justifies the category be available in SGnG. I will point out however that NES GnG infinitely loops, while the rest of the games in the series do not. I personally don't agree that 1 loop should be a category in NES GnG but there are a lot of people playing it, partly because its in the Big 20 #5 as a goal.

If other moderators want to chime in maybe we can decide something.

BiiWiX, Misteur and 2 others like this. 
  Senen

Well...
1) Pretty much all games that loop has a one loop category, which is nice because it's shorter and less repetitive.
2) The "there is no bad ending, period" statement is highly arguable.
3) "I personally don't agree that it should be a category but there are a lot of people playing it", what kind of logic is that? Having a lot of people running a category is probably the best reason why it SHOULD be a category.
4) UltimeDécathlon had a community of nearly 100 people running Bad Ending last year. There are 10 people right now on the SRC leaderboard. I'm not saying all UD runners would have submitted their time on SRC, but I'm pretty sure we would have filled it with several tens of submissions. https://www.ultimedecathlon.com/championship/s3/super-ghouls-n-ghosts

Little_Maille, roni77nf and 2 others like this. 
  Aquas

There is no bad ending. The game is completed with 2 loops. If people don't want to commit to running 2 loops it's their problem; this is a game that prides itself in its difficulty, and I want to uphold that pride.

Koston, RottDawg and 3 others like this. 
  Despatche

Might as well say something.

The games that have one-loop categories do so because they almost always loop infinitely and actually need a one-loop category. Some of these games suck because the single loop has very little to it, such as Donkey Kong.

A single loop of Super isn't that short, but let's be real here: playing half the game and just quitting is missing the point, especially when that game is only about half an hour.

The endings aren't arguable at all, there is literally no bad ending. The cutscene at the end of 1-7 is the halfway point, not an ending.

Seeing a lot of people run a category might actually be the worst reason to keep a category around, because it leads to things like race goals becoming more than race goals or really short goals sticking around for no other reason than tradition. Not naming names, other than Donkey Kong. More submissions simply is not inherently a good thing.

None of this is elitism. "everyone else does it so we should do too" is so much more dangerous than "trust in the handful of people that decided on this", anyway.

Misteur likes this. 
  roni77nf

I am reading the discussion and I am "amazed" of the way there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY of discussion.
Guys, seriously. I ran the bad ending during the Ultime Decathlon last year. It is a good category for people who wants to do a challenging run on a really reknowned difficult game. I tried the any%, but it is far too difficult to end the game cause the weapon needed is deeply bad (and the final boss is µ£µ£%£µ§/%µ£¨%µ )

You can think what you want, but keeping the game for yourselves is really regrettable. Maybe you want to stay just the very few you are, but I think it is a mistake.
What is implied in your reaction is: they suck, we don't care about them.
Not cool.

Stefler, Moliman and 3 others like this. 
  Fred

Since you're only doing 7/15 stages with that, the category should be called 46.6%! Haha.

Anyway, I don't think the game being too difficult is a very valid reason. People speedrun even harder games like the SMW romhacks or the "I wanna be the X" games. If you're having trouble with astaroth & nebiroth, you could always check out the tutorial vid i made: some shameless self-promotion right there, oh yeah!

 
  roni77nf

I'm not having troubles with them
I just think it is stupid to block the creation of a bad ending category just to prevent the number of runners from increasing, that's all. No one is arguing on the MasterSword% of Zelda 3, and it is a highly played category.

Moliman, Stefler and 3 others like this. 
  MooX

It's a fair point to say that extending categories with the bad ending doesn't harm the game at any point, that would not be the main category and it would bring more people to run the game and try the any%.

Moliman, Stefler and 5 others like this. 
  Djodjino

It's not a question of "keeping the reputation of the game", it's a question of "listening to your community". Guys, there are way more runners that did the "one loop" run than people that did the "any %" run.

Listen to you community, the worse that can happen is that you'll have tons of run that will come, it will put the light on SGNG and other people will come and start with the "one cycle" categorie untill they feel confident enough to do the any%.

You'll have new challengers, more people to SR the game, that probably means more people playing your game. What is wrong with that ?!?
It does not mean AT ALL that your game will suffer from a kind of bad reputation and everyone will say "Haha SGNG ? Bah it's too easy ..."

I think it's really a shame not to listen to your community and stay stick together ... share your love for your game and accept new players ... 🙂

Moliman, Stefler and 6 others like this. 
  jeffsledge

I shouldn't really have any input since I'm a mod only because I created the series,
but I believe you can add any category to Misc. If that doesn't work, just make ILs to satisfy people.

Moliman, Stefler and 6 others like this. 
  MooX

Yeah, we are requesting a misc category, that's the point 🙂

Moliman, Stefler and roni77nf like this. 
  Zoph

+1 for a new category, some people want to do this run + it give some visibility to the game so it seems stupid not to create it.

Lunatix, Moliman and 8 others like this. 
  mohoc

I agree, I see no harm in creating a misc category.

Moliman, Stefler and roni77nf like this. 
  Despatche

Might as well respond.

I make an alright post about exactly why this isn't a strictly good idea, and it gets mostly ignored except for one upvote. A handful of people all make basically the same "please add this, everyone wants it" post, all ignoring my post completely, and all of them get numerous upvotes.

It's kinda hard to have discussion when actual points are getting overrun by "the community demands it"-type posts, yet those same people also claim those bringing up actual points are the ones stifling discussion. It's frustrating, really.

Misc categories are fine, I guess, because it's pretty obvious those categories are just there for fun. But that was never the original intent. Saying things like "hundreds of people play this, you just HAVE to add a category" totally implies that you want this to be front page material. It's already not an entirely good idea to even acknowledge it as a category, but to put it even beside Any%-set-as-primary is still insulting to SGnG.

It's insulting because the loops in these games are analogous to something like Kirby Super Star Ultra with the Spring Breeze and Revenge of the King modes. People don't play the individual games in KSS separately, because that's prime short race material. Really, you start putting in things like KSS sub-game splits and GnG 1-ALL runs when you start putting in things like ILs, and you do that when the game is already popular enough that the then-large community decides it's a fun thing to do. You don't do it beforehand, because then you end up with a bunch of totally dead categories... and the occasional popoff about your game being dead because you have too many categories. Trust me, I know way more about this than I probably should.

Yes, I'm aware there are now 1-ALL categories. This is about whether they're a good idea, and about debunking the myth that numbers are all that matters. I just hope people don't start asking for ILs in this game, because then you're gonna see the problem taken to the exact logical extreme that I'm worried about here.

 
  Koston

As retrospective summary, a 1-loop category was created. Currently it has roughly half the number of submissions as any% category, and within the active community it's mostly just ignored.

The hypothesis that it would attract more interest in the game and grow the community have also proven largely incorrect. None of the people who originally argued for creating a 1-loop category ever became active SGnG runners (of any category), or otherwise active members of the GnG community.

I'm writing this as a reminder and a warning that when people flock over demanding things in the "name of the community", it should be taken with a grain of salt. In this case what actually happened was 1-loop category being included in a popular french multi-game race, temporarily inflating interest in SGnG, but ultimately resulting in nothing more than a wet fart.

ZedAhmad likes this.