You can't just say "Please don't tell me to follow the rules" just to avoid following the rules.

While the category submission process is far from perfect, there are many reasons why it is what is, one of them being to avoid duplicate category submissions.

Maybe this is a hot take, but I think if a category idea is really good, you would be passionate enough about it to check if it already exists, try it yourself, and go through the proper channels. If you can't even muster up the motivation to try it yourself, why would you expect anyone else to care about it?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude or attack you personally or anything. I'm just at a point where I've lost all patience for these kinds of posts. I'm trying to help you understand why a lot of us role our eyes at these sorts of posts.

Yeah adding CE's also feels a bit arbitrary to me.

I've seen people do "Main Board Marathon" runs in the SMO community, which is exactly what you're describing. Unfortunately, there's no leaderboard for it.

Honestly though, now that the SM64 league is going, having a leaderboard for this would be pretty cool. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is considering just doing Main Board Marathons to farm PB's for the league.

Actually, I don't think the Sunshine outfit becomes available until post-game, so it would be Any% (picking up some Luigi Hint Arts along the way), then buy an outfit and go to Seaside.

But yeah, if these runs sound like fun to you, do some runs of them and submit the idea in Tech's pinned thread:

https://www.speedrun.com/smoce/thread/ze0h9

I like it. It's like Thread Locked% but you don't have to deal with the RNG of how long it takes Tech to notice the post.

@GorganimGorganim
Rip Talkatoo% because technically it's just Any%. (And most other categories for that matter.)

@DMBOS_27YTDMBOS_27YT
But anyway, I'll tell you the same general thing I tell everyone who has a new category idea.

1.) Do a run. Try the run yourself and see if it's something worth doing more than once, or instead of something like Darker Side.

2.) Check the pinned thread on how to submit category ideas.

Yes, technically joycons are the optimal controller, as downthrows do save a little bit of time. But the difference is negligible. There are only a handful of places where down-throws are useful, and even in an AM--an 8+ hour category--the down-throws probably only save a couple of seconds total. Whenever a downthrow is useful, there's always procon-friendly alternate strat that only loses half a second.

So use whichever is more comfortable to you. I'm on team procon. I used to use joycons, but my hands would cramp, and I would lose more time from accidentally pressing buttons with my giant hands than the down-throws could ever hope to save.

My understanding is that he will never give you painting moons before you get to the credits (beat Bowser at Moon), but after that he can give you the painting moons.

Having done a Talkatoo AMNPG (All Moons No Post Game) race, I can confirm that he will not give you painting Moons before the post-game. However, I can't confirm that he will give them to you during the post-game, as I have never tested it.

Tippi (formerly known as Timpani) may be the guy to ask about that, as he has done Talkatoo AM before. Or you could painstakingly comb through his 12-hour VOD to see if it ever happens.

Yeah I think it's a bit too easy and arbitrary for it to have a leaderboard. Most decent speedruns of the main board categories are deathless. Dying is usually slow, so people already tend to avoid it.

The only exceptions are the handful of death warp strats. In Any%, you can death warp back to the Odyssey after collecting the last moon in Lost, but it's actually a bit slower than the deathless strat. In Talkatoo%, runners death warp all the time in Lost to get back to the checkpoint near Talkatoo, but even then, you could just do a normal warp back instead, which is only a tiny bit slower.

I can only really speak on the categories I'm experienced in, but I'm willing to bet that there isn't a single category that would be very different to do deathless.

Yes, I think 1:30 is a great time for a first run. I also followed Smallant's guide and I believe my first run was a 1:48?

Also, yeah, definitely use Tomshi's guide. It's much more up to date. Lot's of free time save.

Some other tips...

When making a practice file, grab all the moons you need to leave, minus one. Dump them. Grab one more moon, save, make copies. This way you only have to watch Mario dump 1 moon at the start of each IL, which saves time.

You can also have profiles with saves right before forks (Wooded/Lake, Snow/Seaside) to save space.

You can also buy a nice outfit in a previous Kingdom so Mario has some swag in your practice/IL file.

To my knowledge, the SMO practice rom doesn't have savestates, which to me, makes it not worth the hassle of modding my Switch. It pales in comparison to SM64 and SMS's practice roms.

I think the best way to practice SMO is to use the other Switch profiles. You have 8 user profiles, which can each have 5 save files. In my experience that's been plenty. Have a profile for each Kingdom you want to practice, save a file right before leaving the previous Kingdom, make 4 copies of that file, and there you go. You have 4 attempts at an IL before you have to make copies again. It takes like 15-30 seconds to make copies maybe.

Yes, Switch Lite is allowed. You would just be forced to play in handheld/tabletop mode, of course.

The rule on handheld vs docked is that as long as the video signal doesn't cut out at any point, you're good. So you can't switch between docked/undocked mid-run. You have to pick one or the other and stick to it.

Yeah I capture sound by connecting the Switch's headphone jack to the "line-in" on my computer.

So I run SMO, SMS, and SM64, and here are my thoughts: SMO is the best speed game. All three games have great movement and very high skill ceilings, but SMO is the most accessible game in many ways.

1.) It's the easiest game to get a hold of. You don't have to hunt down tons of old hardware.
2.) It has the best resources. As Collin said, there are so many great tutorials. SM64 literally has like... a wiki with some uncommentated videos of each star you can try to copy. SMO has Smallant and Tomshi's beginners guides.
3.) The movement has a very high skill ceiling but it's also very forgiving. In SM64 there is no "course correction". You make a jump, you're locked into that jump. If you messed up the jump, you're probably dead and the run is over. In SMO, if you mess up your jump, you have like 15 ways to correct it and recover from it and only lose a few seconds at most.
4.) None of the advanced tricks/skips in SMO Any% are necessary. Seriously. You could get sub-hour without Nut Clip, Lake Clip, DSS, Snow Dram, Scooter Clip... All these tricks save like 5 - 20 seconds tops. (This is more of a slight on SMS, where every other level has some stupid clip/OoB trick that you HAVE to go for because it saves MINUTES. SM64 isn't quite as bad with stupid tricks.)
5.) The gameplay flow is better, IMO. Not getting booted out of the level after each Power Moon makes it a totally different experience. SM64/SMS feel very "stop-and-go", whereas SMO feels like it flows much better. It's hard to find the words to explain this, but if you've speedrun both games you'll know what I mean.
6.) The 60fps looks incredible. Seriously, switching from SM64/SMS to SMO is always a treat for my eyes. The game is just gorgeous, and I can literally feel my eyes relaxing with the smooth 60fps. (And that's a good thing if you're gonna spend hours looking at it.)

So yeah, I definitely lean towards SMO, as you can tell. But SM64 is a great speed game too. As others have said, try both, and see which one feels better to you.

Side note: I could see someone arguing that Scooter Clip is actually not a glitch, because technically you don't clip through the wall--you just kinda reach through it by leaning Mario's hitbox over.

It's kinda like how you can collect Moon Shards from inside cars just by throwing Cappy at the center of the car. His trigger zone is so generous that it just reaches through the car. Is that a glitch? Or a feature? I honestly don't know. Probably a glitch? But like you could make a case that it's not.

Ok but keep in mind, RoseNoArson was asking about Any% Glitchless. Yes, there are lots of glitches/clips used in other categories, but in Any% there's maybe a minute of total time save from glitches--probably less. (Chest Clip 2s, Lake Clip 5s, Nut Clip 20s, Scooter Clip 7s, Snow Moon Clip 3s, Fish Clip 5s?) You could get sub-hour without ever using a glitch.

I don't think defining what a glitch is is the problem. The problem is the glitches in the Any% route don't make enough of a difference to warrant a separate category. Now, if we get some huge glitch that allows us to skip multiple Kingdoms, then Any% Glitchless would make more sense. And even then, it would probably be "Any% - No Major Glitches", or "Any% - All Kingdoms", or "Any% no (insert game-breaking glitch here)".

As a game developer myself, I've always considered a "glitch" to be the game behaving in a way the designers didn't intend--but only when it comes to coding-related stuff. Even that isn't a super great definition.

So like, Moon Cave Skip or Dino Skip Skip aren't glitches. Sure, the designers probably didn't intend for us to get up there, but nothing about the game's code is behaving in a way that was unintended.

Whereas Nut Clip and Lake Clip are glitches, because you're bypassing the game's collision detection and getting past a wall that is hard-coded to be impassible.

In any case, Any% glitchless would be kind of a dumb category because there are only a very small amount of glitches that save any time. Namely, Nut Clip, which saves 20-30 seconds. Lake Clip saves 5 seconds at best. Scooter Clip saves like 5-7 seconds at best. And...that's pretty much it. (At least, that's all I can think of.)

Bowser (Wedding Outfit): Unlocks Bowser wedding outfit and reveals location of regional coins.
Mario (Wedding Outfit): Unlocks Mario wedding outfit and grants temporary invincibility.
Peach (Wedding Outfit): Unlocks Peach wedding outfit and gives a Life-Up Heart.

Source: https://www.nintendo.com/amiibo/games/detail/super-mario-odyssey-switch/

So, yeah, I don't think Amiibo would do anything for Any%. I wonder how the "temporary invincibility" works, though. Is it like grabbing a Power Star in the 2D games? Where you insta-kill / damage enemies on contact? If so, maybe that could be used to speed up the Bowser fights?

Unlocking outfits instantly could technically save some coin grinding for 100% too I think? Unless those outfits are considered "Special" outfits that don't count towards completion.

@linny356linny356 Actually, it would be best Metro exit, since you can just go right to Seaside from there.

@Harv123089Harv123089 That said, generally categories that are just Any%-until-some-point-and-then-do-something don't get accepted, as nobody is interested in running them. The closest thing we have to that is Festival%, which is just Any% until Metro, and then rush the Festival.

Seaside% would be almost the exact same thing--Any% until the end of Metro, then select Seaside instead of Snow. Not only is it an Any%-until-some-point-and-then-do-something category, but it's also too similar to Festival% too.

Maybe there are some 2P CRC shenanigans you can do with Warp Paintings? I don't think so, but even if there was, that's what we have Star% and Min Caps for.

You're certainly welcome to time yourself up until Seaside for practice. I often do Any% runs starting from Metro just to practice the second half of the game. Similar to how SM64 runners might do "Upstairs RTA" for practice, which is just 120 Stars starting from Upstairs (to practice the latter half of the run).