Wow! Thank you! I thought I was going crazy that I couldn't replicate this and the only times I managed to notice it, I couldn't see it reflected in my speed stat (but that seems to be normal).

Also, no wonder I had so much trouble replicating it, as I have a stupid tradition of making my test & speedrun characters female to differentiate them and I was only seeing it on my one male test char without realizing. Haha.

I've just got a chance to test it for a couple of minutes before I get back to work--so it seems the speed boost itself is irrelevant and there's no added benefit to performing this with a shield charge vs. a thunder strike. I don't quite understand what's causing the behavior and the speed is definitely not reflected in the stats, so I'm not sure if that's correct? It's actually much easier to set up than I imagined, though, and the speed boost is notable even at 166%.

I'm already running through Hades at ~1:04 with the skips, so I think with this we'll see Hades any% at under one hour for sure. This is great--thank you!

Okay, I'm back again after a very long break with something that I think is actually pretty big--two new (I believe) skips in both Memphis and Chang'An.

Both skips seemingly require Colossus Form to pull off, but going Rune/Defense does not effect the any% Rune strat very much, as most of the movement speed and boss shredding is pretty much all in Rune, Defense still offers a second charge, and neither skip seems to break any necessary quests.

First, the Memphis skip:

This one I can perform consistently. The only annoyance here is that you have to wait for Colossus Form to run out in order to continue. Just wedge yourself in that corner, get big, clip through. This does not break Thebes and should save ~2 minutes in any%.

Next, the Chang'An skip:

It's pretty obvious by the video that I'm not sure how to perform this consistently. I've done it around a dozen times at about a 50% success rate, but I've tried zooming, print screen, running starts, even Menhir Wall and it doesn't seem to help the last clip. The first two clips are 100% consistent, but other than knowing that you have to wait for Colossus Form to run out again and you have to kind of wedge yourself in the low bricks close to the railing, then clip through the railing, I can't seem to figure out a consistent strategy for this. Again, this doesn't seem to break anything later on and should save ~2 minutes.

Just wanted to see if anyone else has any luck performing these skips w/ any consistency and maybe if Colossus Form could be used to skip anywhere else (maybe Thebes or Labyrinth?).

EDIT: I also wanted to put it out there that I did also notice that I was able to store the speed boost from Thunder Strike after cancelling for as long as I kept moving. Has anyone else noticed this happening? I thought my speed was a bit inconsistent a few times, but noticed it for sure on a long Strike in Egypt that I cancelled at the last minute--the speed boost lasted from right after the scarab boss to Memphis. Any consistent set up for this also seems potentially huge, especially if you could store a Take Down or Shield Charge boost.

@mrtiger

Hopefully "correct" didn't sound stuck-up or something--I use it interchangeably with "good" because I'm an idiot. lol I have very little experience running haruspex for any% and those times you mention are much faster than I expected (heartbreaking to hear about the legendary run, too), but I think there is one potentially significant difference between a haruspex strat and a rune strat: Greece. After I hit level 2, I'm at 156% movespeed for the rest of Greece and finish consistently ~20 minutes, which is, I think, ~3 minutes faster than ql28's act I split. To be fair, I've been losing that time in Egypt, but I think that's my fault, not the strat's.

I'm generally a clumsy player and haven't optimized the rune strat yet, so I think these times will go down over time with better players, but I suppose only time will tell if there really is a difference between haruspex and rune or not. Your concern about allowing those who don't own the Ragnarok DLC to compete was also my concern, but I think you're right that I'm probably overestimating rune's performance vs haruspex's ideal performance.

@Mindwaves

I only ever tested guardian stones once and thought it was a bad skill, so I've never considered it since--probably the same oversight that made me think sacred rage wasn't a useful speedrunning skill for quite a while. lol

For single mastery I used the same DPS skills as my accomplished hero runs. I wasn't doing it because I thought it was better, I was just going to test skinchanger, but put more points into health than I meant to and decided to be lazy. lol

It is tough sometimes to stay under 40% hp! lol I think part of developing this strat will be looking at how to level at the right times to lose health quickly afterward. atm I double-up performing the glitch with losing health a bit, which I think is good, but I still level at some very awkward times. lol

I've been running a lot of rune/sacred rage tests for both any% and glitchless, and I'm starting to think rune is the correct mastery for any%. I decided to record a run as a response to a discussion I was having with mrtiger in the leaderboard restructure thread, but figured I'd post it here so I wouldn't clutter another thread. lol

This is a 1:10:44 stopped at act IV. I believe, under the current rules, this is technically a WR run for any% Hades. This is the first time I built dragon hunter, so I believe I mistakenly sold a boots of journeying (may have been a different run), I had a rough Egypt, and I also stupidly died to both Cerberus and Hades, resulting in ~3 minutes of time loss due to deaths and likely more to just my general confusion. lol I had previously run a 1:08:32 (unrecorded) through act IV without picking a second mastery, so I'm not 100% convinced dragon hunter is the automatic best build, though I'm guessing it probably is.

I'm positive Ragnarok should take less than 38 minutes without any major time losses (I ran a rune/storm test, which was bad, through act V in that time), so this build should easily be able to be at ~1:45 total for a Ragnarok any%.

I don't know yet what the final build should be, the best way to look for equipment, when to loot, how to lose health after leveling, etc. so I'm sure there's more time to save from these tests.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this with anyone who might be looking to run any%. LiveSplit's global hotkeys stop me from performing the skill point glitch, so I have to run windowed and switch focus to start/stop WSplit which is a massive pain in the ass, so I don't think I'll be recording any% runs myself. lol

I could be wrong, but I've been running some tests through act IV alone that makes me think it's the real deal: I ran a 1:08:32 last night without picking a second mastery and, for the purpose of responding here, just recorded a 1:10:48 with ~3 minutes worth of really stupid deaths going dragon hunter for the first time. I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll start a new thread with that video when it's uploaded. I don't know for certain that dragon hunter will outperform an ideal haruspex run, but it heavily outperforms an average haruspex run.

That said, I don't necessarily think Hades and Ragnarok should be separated: I just wanted to bring it up before I recorded any runs. If everyone is okay with posting Ragnarok splits to Hades, then it doesn't bother me at all.

I like how everything is looking so far--I think this was a really clever and especially clean way to include many types of runs!

I did want to bring up a thought I had about the rules for Hades(AE) for both any% and glitchless to allow act IV splits from Ragnarok runs into the Hades category. I don't know if this is me overthinking it, but I've been looking into using rune (and sacred rage) for both any% and glitchless Ragnarok runs. I actually ran a seidr worker test for any% Ragnarok in 1:55 and think the build is viable. LiveSplit stops me from performing the glitch, so I don't have an act IV split and can't say if it was competitive with current Hades runs, but if it was and rune outperforms other builds in glitchless or any% through act Iv, it seems like that would basically invalidate non-Ragnarok runs.

I could be wrong about how good sacred rage actually is and in the event it is that good, I don't know if that's really a concern or not, but I just wanted to bring it up while the topic is fresh!

Thanks again for the great restructure! I will be submitting my accomplished hero run very soon. lol

Well, I know I promised not to spam the forums anymore, but I got excited for this category again after seeing that the leaderboards were going to be restructured (thanks mrtiger!) lol So I ran a few attempts and got a 38:13 that I figured I'd share here since there won't be a place for it for a few days and I've refined the strat a bit so I thought maybe others who are thinking of running the category could take a look if they don't have a strat in mind already.

So, the biggest change is just me being less lazy and keeping the starting dagger to use thunder strikes for extra speed. I think my "pattern" of thunder strikes is pretty good, though I missed a few bigger ones during this run. I knew thunder strikes would save time, but I didn't realize they'd save SO much time.

I'm not confident my exact strat for scrolls is perfect (and I made a really bad decision with a frenzy in Scandia in this run), but generally I now take 1 bloodrage for Sinmara and 1 primal chaos for Surtr, then as many frenzies as I can find in 2 stops in Corinth (pre-Ketos and post-Ketos) to activate when I lose sacred rage and need the move speed. The cooldown on scrolls and the size issue with primal chaos doesn't give a lot of other options, I think.

I'm so bad at leveling that it's actually faster for me to just stand still and dump points into health and set up skills. lol I think there has to be some time to save at Ketos with a better plan for leveling. Also, I'm not convinced the point in frightening power is worth it as it causes a lot of problems, especially at Ketos where a more consistent clear can save 15-20 seconds. It might be worth putting that point into regrowth to keep out of death range when a potion would deactivate sacred rage, but I'm not sure yet.

Anyway--every time I say some time is "possible" that time gets crushed, so I won't bother making a guess at what's possible here. lol I'm just excited to see some more runs and what other strats are developed in a very fun category!

Okay, I promise I'll stop spamming the forums after this, but I wanted to share this 42:04 I recorded--I got excited about this category again today. lol

I did a pretty poor job managing my health for sacred rage in general, lost ~20 seconds to a death at the stolen items quest, and lost ~45 seconds to a dumb death at Nidhoggr. Also, I'm pretty sure resetting is slower than taking the portal at Mimer (because it resets sacred rage), but Mimer trapped me, so I was forced to reset and had an ugly Mimer fight. lol

My leveling is really bad--you definitely don't need to finish leveling attributes to beat Ketos--so I think there's probably a good chunk of time to save there by spreading out leveling. I also didn't look into the scrolls enough: I can only identify primal chaos and frenzy by icon and I'm sure there are some scrolls that could help at Nerthus and maybe a few other fights to save even more time, as the suggestion to consider scrolls was a very good one (this Surtr fight was VERY fast thanks to primal chaos).

Anyway, all of that is to say that I think a sub 40 is definitely doable, which is very exciting! lol

So I decided to try a couple of runs on my break and sub 45 is definitely possible--I managed a 44:20 on my second attempt. I took your advice and looked for scrolls, but I ran into a little problem with primal chaos: I can't fit through the doors in Muspelheim after activating the scroll. lol I tried to activate at the stairs outside of Loki to fight the giants that normally follow me into the Loki fight and ended up waiting outside for ~40 seconds until it ran out. Then I accidentally turned off heart of oak after activating my second scroll during the Surtr fight and died, so that 44:20 could be a 42 with less mistakes and good scroll usage, I think. lol

https://www.kirmiziperfect.com/titancalc-anniversary-edition/TitanCalcd6f4d6f4rune9de6.html?mastery=Skinchanger&master1=4&master2=10&sa=7&m1=4-0-0-12-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=32-10-6-1-16-10-1-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-12-12-0-0-0-0-6-0-0

That's the exact build I ran today--not sure if that's optimal, but it's the best skinchanger build I've tried. I buy dex or health rings & amulets, then go to ~195 dex to meet the hades blades requirements and dump the rest in health to get to as much as ~7000 health.

A 42 would be very close to mrtiger's any% time through Ragnarok, I believe--it would be fun to beat that time. lol

Yeah, actually, I shouldn't have been overlooking scrolls--you're right! I started to ignore scrolls in my glitchless because of the level requirement, but here a primal chaos would be really good and even a frenzy or something could be very useful.

I didn't do much more testing after recording this run, but I also struggled to find anything that could outpace rune. I was mostly waiting for your results to see if maybe storm/ice shards or something else would be fast boss killers, though lol

I actually did do a few tests of a rune + nature build shortly after I recorded that run using heart of oak, rune of life, and sacred rage to get to 166 movespeed, ignoring armor again to get ~6000 max health (~2400 health to keep sacred rage active), and using similar DPS skills as that recorded dragon hunter build, with sacred rage attack speed instead of wood lore. I timed a 47:51 with a lot of stupid mistakes--I think a sub 45 could be possible with some variation of that build, good boss fights, and better health management to keep sacred rage active at all times.

Also, I'll join in saying fuck Sinmara and Loki lol

Well, Mindwaves, you were definitely correct to be buying armor lol--I changed around the Dragon Hunter build to put more skill points into masteries so I'd have more natural health and stats and can buy travels or journeyings with 3-4k health. I only kept Take Down, Wood Lore, and Art of the Hunt in Hunting and now Rune is providing the DPS and reduced resistances with Seal of Fate. I think this could be a viable build for this category, depending on how testing is going with the mage builds.

I recorded this 49:02 this morning and feel pretty good about it:

I know this category is not official, but I am having a lot of fun with it so far. It is a fantastic idea, imo--props to Mindwaves.

I was losing ~2,000 health worth of attribute points to meet requirements for armor and was struggling to consistently survive Nerthus and the stolen items quest right after it (was also having flashbacks of Land's End in my full glitchless run and expected I couldn't survive on ~2,500 health), but you're right that probably a chance at travels or journeying is much better for a better player who can survive those areas lol (not to mention what +200 str could do for DPS)

And yes, at the very least, the idea for this category is giving a lot of interesting things to think about. lol

I think this category could be a lot of fun.

I did a little testing since seeing this post and just finished a 1:00:24 glitchless run that could have been closer to 56:00 if I didn't play awful, and maybe even lower if I played well. lol I went Dragon Hunter: 2 points in Rune for Rune of Life, then close to a full Hunting DPS build (missing some points in Art of the Hunt), just enough dex for a bow & spear, then the rest in health--no armor or shield, just bow, spear, rings, and amulet.

I think the variety of bosses in Ragnarok could make this category legitimately fun. My build was good with some, but other bosses were a pain (especially Sinmara) and there's opportunity for skill in a lot of fights, imo. I don't know, besides how big and open the maps are, I had a lot of fun with it and really want to test some other builds & strats now. lol

Anyway, I really like this suggestion. Hopefully this category or something like it can work out, if only to see more Titan Quest runs. lol