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Forum: Super Mario 64

Thread: Framewalking Discussion Thread

Started by: saksdalsaksdal

I agree with allowing the mapping, and the trick.


1) if a ban were to be implemented on a map, the ban isn't enforceable
- since the trick is possible to do without remapping button to analog, it wouldn't be possible to
tell whether or not a player is using the remap, unless controller cam and facecam were also required
-> you would have to ban the framewalk itself to make the ban enforceable
-> then this becomes more or less banning a trick because the community dislikes the trick
-> I would argue that hmc blj is both more inconsistent than framewalk (btn remap) and has more impact (bigger timesave)

2) current top times use the strat
- if we were to ban framewalk, current top times would be affected
-> if we were to remove the times, that wouldn't be fair to runners to ban strats retroactively.
-> if we were to keep the times, that wouldn't be fair to current runners to try to beat times with strats that aren't currently allowed
-> add x seconds: also a bad option since timesave is not uniform, and would also be "guessing" what they would get without the trick.
- should we add more time for cheese, since he doesn't do instant cannon shot?

counterpoints against common points i see:

1) barrier-to-entry argument
- this argument states it isnt fair to other runners to purchase hardware for an advantage
-> but this happens all the time. purchasing a better controller / steelstick gives the player a
significantly larger advantage than this adapter, i would argue. not to mention playing on a crt is
a large improvement over a modern tv.
-> obviously, noone wants to ban crts or steelsticks. so why is this a point against a cheaper product that enables a <5s timesave?

I want to respond to some points in simply's post/video.
- comparing using the adapter to using emu
- this one bothers me the most. It isn't the same. a more apt comparison would be using the adapter to switching versions from us to jp.
-> timesave us->jp and no adapter -> adapter roughly the same
-> also "changing an external variable to get a timesave"
-> functionality of the game preserved. emu and vc feel significantly worse than n64, and play extremely different (lag). jp and
us have occasional small difference in the strats you can do (bbh ghost hunt). this adapter only changes one star.
-> we were also not meant to play out of region carts. the console and cart are even region locked to avoid this. yet everyone does it.
- comparison to oot / mm
- sm64 angles are too varied between stars to make a button as useful as oot/mm (ok, quickturn is our ess, but still)
- barrier to entry -> see (1)
- "never meant to be played" argument
- this could apply for many stars over the course of a run.
- not really an argument. see Appeal to nature
- "we have something threatening the very nature of the nintendo 64s intended functionality"
- "the very core of speedrunning is using the intended hardware that any other person would have, and doing your best job with that"
- see (1), or modding your n64 to play jp sm64 for timesave.

While I am anti-ban, I also have an argument for banning the mapping, which i will state for completeness:
simply mentions in his post he isn't sure of other implications of the trick.
I have something I thought of a while back, but it doesn't affect rta really. it affects singlestar.
there is one singlestar record a digital controller would be very useful for, which is deep freeze. heres how.
-> you map buttons to control stick, camera, and a/b. however you map another button for maximum speedkick forward input.
-> you can do a camera setup for this star so you have forward input the full time. do that camera
-> complete the star as normal. a good portion of the difficulty in this star comes from having a perfect speedkick
(holding control stick completely forward, then back for 1frame, then completely forward again). if you watch atmpas 5"30 (since deleted), he does get a perfect speedkick.
which is extremely difficult on a controller, is just 2 frame perfect inputs on a digital pad. signifcantly easier.
of course, you still have to have a good ending which is also very hard, but it does provide a substantial advantage.

I cant think of other singlestars where this is applicable.

TheOnlyRandyTheOnlyRandy, badroenisbadroenis and 2 others like this. 

Forum: Super Mario 64

Thread: Theorycrafting

Started by: [Deleted user]

(100c with slide, not race)

(general ideas video you might like)

TabascothTabascoth likes this. 

Forum: Super Mario 64

Thread: OpenEmu is now allowed for submissions

Started by: GothicLogicGothicLogic

currently mupen64. im looking into project64 1.6.

edit: got project64 working. was easier than i thought


Forum: Super Mario 64

Thread: OpenEmu is now allowed for submissions

Started by: GothicLogicGothicLogic

Hey there,

I recentely began learning sm64 120 star. I currently do runs on emulator, where it is convient to record my gameplay. I do have n64 and vc sm64, but i dont have a method of recording for this. The problem is, I use linux where openemu (mac) and project64 (windows) do not run on.

What do? I suppose i could try to get p64 working under wine, but i imagine this would would be hard (especially the controller).