Forum posts

Forum: Sonic Colors

Thread: Emulator Announcement Thread

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

(edited: )

Hello everyone! Recently, the discussion of emulators came up in another game I moderate, Sonic Heroes. We ended up allowing emulation there and since this game would be able to adhere to the exact same emulation rules, we decided to allow it here as well.

As such, emulation is now officially allowed for Egg Shuttle and Individual Levels with the ruleset below.

Emulator rules:
- Only the GameCube NTSC version is allowed.
- Dolphin version 5.0 (or up) must be used.
- Please use a stable build of the emulator, no development or beta builds.
- "Speed Up Disc Transfer Rate" must be turned off.
- "CPU Clock Override" must be set to 100%.
- Emulator must run at full speed. An occasional lag spike is fine, but consistent slowdown is not.
- The window's title bar showing the emulator version, framerate, etc. must be visible in the video.
- Modifications, cheats and emulator exclusive functions are not allowed.
- Emulator is only allowed for Egg Shuttle and Individual Levels.

Note: Any of the emulator rules shown above may be changed and retro-actively applied if new information about emulation is found that would require a rule change.

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Why not Any% and All Chaos Emeralds?
- We've only confirmed Dolphin's accuracy in-game time wise thus far. For real time categories to be viable as well I would like a very detailed side-by-side showing that all aspects of the game are equal. This means load screens, lag (or lack thereof) and anything involving the overworld or cutscenes. The main point of emulation is accessibility, so having the game's main category and all of the IL's now open to you is a good first step.

What's the thought process behind some of these emulator restrictions?
- It's best to check out the thread in the Sonic Heroes for that. Any of the points involving emulator settings and functionality are explained more thoroughly there: https://www.speedrun.com/sonicheroes/thread/4m5el

 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Emulator Discussion Master Thread

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

(edited: )

Alrighty, looks like it's happening. We'll be allowing emulator for IGT categories and IL's with the restrictions below.

Emulator rules:
- Only the GameCube NTSC version is allowed.
- Dolphin version 5.0 (or up) must be used.
- Please use a stable build of the emulator, no development or beta builds.
- "Speed Up Disc Transfer Rate" must be turned off.
- "CPU Clock Override" must be set to 100%.
- Emulator must run at full speed. An occasional lag spike is fine, but consistent slowdown is not.
- The window's title bar showing the emulator version, framerate, etc. must be visible in the video.
- Modifications, cheats and emulator exclusive functions are not allowed.
- Emulator is only allowed for Game Time categories and Individual Levels.

Note: Any of the emulator rules shown above may be changed and retro-actively applied if new information about emulation is found that would require a rule change.

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Some explanations for the decisions:

Why only Gamecube / Dolphin?
- It is the easiest console to emulate and with the right settings, consistent enough that there aren't major differences. We want to strike the right balance of accessibility and accuracy. The research needed to allow PS2 or Xbox emulation doesn't really have any payoff as the accessibility of Dolphin more clearly aligns with the goals of allowing emulation to begin with.

Why only NTSC?
- With the existence of PAL60, a lot more timing and researching would have to be done to make sure they run equally. Not worth doing for this initial test run since there is no payoff. 60hz gets no benefit on IGT categories, as the file timer also gets the 20% speed increase. Allowing PAL at the regular 50hz doesn't have any added benefit either as it loses a small amount of time (10-ish seconds) to slower score screen loading anyway.

Why no RTA categories?
- For starters there is the abovementioned PAL60 testing that would have to be done. I'd also want a side-by-side of all non-gameplay aspects of the game to make 100% sure no RTA advantage is gotten by running on emulator. Considering this only applies to Super Hard Mode & All A Ranks, the least accessible categories, we decided to leave them out of this initial test run entirely.

What about the memory watcher issues Revo brought up?
- After discussing it with one of the game's TASers THC98, the likelihood of this giving any advantage during runs is very low, especially at the speed BOP boosts happen. No clear advantage can really be gained from it that can't otherwise be gotten from visual cues. We're just gonna have some trust in y'all not to use it.

The reasoning for the rest of the rules are either found in this very thread, or should be obvious by itself.

MatiXD153MatiXD153 likes this. 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Emulator Discussion Master Thread

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

Wouldn't call it a dead discussion. I feel like I was pretty clear from the start that I expect the people who want emulator to begin with to do the work. I've mostly been waiting to see if anyone had a solution to the issue Revo posted about as well as actual timing videos.

So on that topic, Avikaielef was kind enough to do some minor timing tests, but I guess he didn't actually post them here so I'll post them in his stead.

Score screen loading seems equal. Don't mind the fact that he didn't hit A to progress the score screen itself, he doesn't actually play this game 😛 what's important here is the inital time it takes for the score screen to pop up
https://streamable.com/ca9k83

Unskippable cutscenes seem equal in length too.
https://streamable.com/we14u5

Personally that's my worries about IGT being equal gone. If it turns out to not be the case we can always reverse decisions. As for the thing Revo posted, I'd love to have a good way to spot if that's being used, but since we lack that it'd have to just be on trust basis. I'll ask the other mods for their take.

 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Robot Storm/Carnival Restart Question

Started by: SpeedGlitchedTrevorSpeedGlitchedTrevor

(edited: )

I know what you mean, every boss has this problem where it adds some extra seconds when you first select it in the challenge menu. You are definitely allowed to do it from a restart (doing the stage in story mode also doesn't add the extra seconds) and no it's not checkpoint segmenting.

 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Emulator Discussion Master Thread

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

So something I'd personally still like to see for this is a confirmation that all loads are equal to (or slower than) console. A side by side video taking all the parts that don't have a stage timer. For me personally that's the only part I'm still unsure of atm.

(If anyone does do that, don't use Deku's runs as the console example, his stage loads are slower than most Wii's for some reason. Only top runner with that problem afaik).

 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Emulator Discussion Master Thread

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

Someone named Hydrus from multiple communities that allow Dolphin actually gave some pretty good insight in regards to point 3, the builds (and something I didn't think of, settings). What they generally follow for ruling is:

Runs on Dolphin emulator must use version 5.0 or later. -> most consistent build thus far
"Speed Up Disc Transfer Rate" must be turned off. -> makes loads faster
"CPU Clock Override" must be set to 100%. -> makes the game itself run faster or slower

So any further testing and comparisons should be done with those settings in mind imo.

PhoenobiPhoenobi, revolucionrevolucion and NachoAutistaNachoAutista like this. 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Emulator Discussion Master Thread

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

Hey folks! I know there are a bunch of you that'd like emulator to be allowed for this game. The other mods and I are not not promising anything as of yet (I'll start the discussion with the other mods based on the results of this thread), but let's at least open up the discussion.

There are a few points that I think are important to consider before allowing emulation. Some of these require thorough testing and I'd like this thread to be the hub for posting said tests.

This will mostly be focussed on the Dolphin emulator, but if there are any other options that I'm unaware of, do bring them up if you think they're viable.

1. Does emulator load faster? And if yes, does this loading effect the loading speed of the score screens as well, which would effect IGT? The results of this test would show which timing methods emulator would be on equal footing for, if any at all.

2. To more easily detect pre-recording with save states or submitting TASes, I personally think it'd be wise to include the window bar of Dolphin in the game capture. The "Input frame/total" counter shows whether a recording is playing or not. Also makes it even easier to spot performance issues. Thoughts on this?
http://puu.sh/GuYUa/f0c6b8330c.png

3. Are there performance differences between different builds of Dolphin? This is important to know in case we'd need to regulate specific builds that we know work well.

4. Any known differences in physics and if there are any, whether they impact the run at all. Obviously all mods/cheat codes will not be allowed, but it's important for the main game to run as correctly as possible.

I do not have the spare time (or tbh, motivation as I'd still like most people to run on actual hardware) to look into stuff like this, so I'd appreciate your help in this. If anyone else has any other points of discussion, please do post them.

KokunsderpKokunsderp, NachoAutistaNachoAutista and 2 others like this. 

Forum: Sonic Colors

Thread: remove don as a moderator

Started by: DNGRDNGR

(edited: )

I'll talk to Don to see what he wants, since he's indeed inactive on the site, but please just talk to the active mods about stuff like this in the future. Demanding action in a public forum post we have to stumble upon is both inefficient and rude.

UbuntuJacksonUbuntuJackson likes this. 

Forum: Sonic Forces

Thread: 100%/All S-Ranks% Runs?

Started by: BramBellBramBell

I stand corrected, but yeah if more than 1 person ran it, sure 🙂

 

Forum: Sonic Forces

Thread: 100%/All S-Ranks% Runs?

Started by: BramBellBramBell

Because noone runs it

 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Glitch-restricted category discussion

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

If there's no objections, I'll probably just do the split later this week 🙂 no harm in having the category be on the same playing field as the rest.

ZojalyxZojalyx likes this. 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Glitch-restricted category discussion

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

There's a total of 3 BOP boosts that save a bunch of time in Rail Canyon and Frog Forest and there's pinball table launching in Casino Park, but that's about it yeah

 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Glitch-restricted category discussion

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

Hey folks, since it often gets asked and the team recently got a new BOP boost in the form of the flapper BOP boost, I was thinking of making the LTS split for Team Chaotix as well. There seems to be a good interest in the LTS categories and I wouldn't want Chaotix to be the one people skip out on cause it doesn't have one. Thoughts? Should I add the split? Or nah not needed?

ZojalyxZojalyx likes this. 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Indivual Level Leaderboards

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

(edited: )

Yes, but the rules both here and on TSC clearly state that neither team is allowed to move early. The rules are not banning a specific glitch, they're banning any glitch that accomplishes that.

 

Forum: Sonic Heroes

Thread: Indivual Level Leaderboards

Started by: CriticalCydCriticalCyd

(edited: )

"if either team is moved before control is naturally gained the time is disqualified from the boards."

This is the exact same ruling as TSC, so I think you misinterpreted their rules
http://puu.sh/GkZbu/46601fec58.png