Just a Thought
6 years ago
United States

Hello, I created this thread regarding the "Times under 5:00.00 need to be streamed" rule. I'm not trying to start a fight, but wouldn't it be better if it were "Times under 4:59.00 need to be streamed"? Because a couple runners including tavenwebb have had 4:59s done offline, therefore it doesn't count on the leaderboard. But honestly, it's clearly 100% real because you can clearly see the NES Classic menu, so therefore it's clearly not fake. Now, take your time to think on this. Thanks for reading, feedback of any kind is appreciated.

Missouri, USA
Mungaru
She/Her, They/Them
6 years ago

no

Colorado, USA

Dram, GDF, and NickJ's runs were all streamed. I don't see the issue here.

United States

Yes they would. To have a good run on the leaderboard.

brman85, Tebt_W and 3 others like this
Virginia, USA

TBH there are a lot of people that would do a lot more for a lot less grape. you cant underestimate the pettiness of people who would do that.

Uruguay
Twintail_Nami
She/Her, They/Them
6 years ago

I must say that I feel more comfortable and I can focus much more when playing offline. I'm not capable of sub5'ing yet but I think I'm getting every time closer, and I wouldn't like to get "the run" while playing offline and not being able to submit it. Sometimes I just don't have the time or I just don't feel like streaming for a few runs. Some people might feel like that too.

Québec

I stopped doing runs of SMB because of that rule. I just can't stream because of my very low data cap but removing it would make it a pain to spot spliced runs and such so I don't know.

Colorado, USA

I think the mods should treat each case differently. If suspicion arises on a run before or after verification, it could be investigated then instead of trying to claim all runs that weren't streamed are spliced or something. On that note, I'm with Anti.

Axodo, slippy318 and 3 others like this
California, USA

I don't see any problem doing runs offline as long as you're able to record it in some shape or form. If I were to do something like that, I would have a live mic, controller cam, or something along those lines to make it look legit. I think if only gameplay is shown, that to me is a red flag. How will people know that it was you that truly got that time and not taking somebody else's video and claiming it's your own? Have there been any cases like that, mods?

slippy318, PMniac and 2 others like this
United States

@ViruseReturns has a very good point. Im also more comfortable with playing offline. Also I cant stream, so if and when I play offline, it just makes me MUCH more relaxed and able to play better. Now, yeah apparently I AM able to sub 5, but it just kinda struck me as confused when it was rejected.

Michigan, USA

I mean, if someone like Darbian is running offline and beats his record, and it was recorded, shouldn't we be able to trust him? Someone like Darb wouldn't fake a run, same with andrewg1990, and many other runners. I feel like exceptions like that should be allowed.

United States

Still, REGARDLESS of that statement, if this were a TRUE leaderboard all of the legit runs would count. Even the ones people didnt stream because they never thought they would sub 5.it just seems like a big slap in the face to me.

Michigan, USA

Yeah, like I haven't submitted a run yet, but I could get a sub 5 (recorded, not streamed) and it wouldn't count... like, why? Just seems unfair to us that haven't started streaming, or even submitting runs, if we do get a sub 5.

United States

I know, even if you do or dont work hard, it should be allowed tbh. Some people like me and tavenwebb cant stream, therefore under normal circumstances, no matter what, our runs would be rejected. Which is really stupid. Even though its there to stop fake runs from being on top (like Anti said) the rule should be removed altogether.

Florida, USA

People have streamed spliced runs and tried to submit them on the boards. The Mods are experienced enough to spot these runs and have rejected them. I think the intent of the rule was good, but in practice it doesn't work. Spliced runs have been streamed, and caught and rejected. Frankly, I'm not really sure if the rule should or should not be changed, but I certainly think it's worth discussing.

slippy318, Pouilli and 3 others like this
Québec

I'm in favor of the removal of the rules. Those rules prevent me from doing speedrun because I don't like the "streaming" thingy. I got some restriction with my internet and I can't afford to stream for too long.

That's it. hue

CapnSR, slippy318 and 3 others like this
United States

@fattypenguin I know, if you are forced to stream but cant, how is that supposed to be fair?

Québec

Let's just wait what the mods have to say about this.

Virginia, USA

This isnt a democracy, its up to the moderators and what they believe is the right decision, we have to respect that.

Gaming_64 and evad999 like this
United States

My thoughts: I don't think the point of streaming was to prevent anyone from submitting a spiced run, TAS, etc. but was a way to verify that someone had put in the effort and has the skill to get a good time. When you stream attempts you have actual proof that you know how to play the game due to the hundreds or thousands of attempts it takes being shown publicly. It's more of looking at the bulk of someone's work as a whole vs. just meticulously inspecting one run to prove that someone isn't cheating. It's very apparent if someone streamed a bunch of horrible attempts, can't do a single pipe jump or whatever, and at the end played a 4:58 TAS. No one who's going to submit a TASed run is going to also make and stream thousands of other TASs of failed sub 5 attempts.

To offer a compromise and I think someone has brought this up before: Instead of streaming attempts we could have the option of just recording our attempts and uploading them to youtube for verification. There could me a minimum amount of attempts required (like 2 hours worth or something idk...). In the end there's little difference I can think of between streaming all your attempts or just recording them in terms of proving that you know how to play the game. Streaming is just live. In fact there's nothing that prevents someone from recording all their attempts and then streaming them back at a later time with how the current rules are. No one could tell the difference.

I don't think it's easy as people think for the mods to spot a standalone spliced run that's submitted. Particularly if it's done on emulator save states. If it's done properly it should be indistinguishable from a legitimate run.

Whatever the rule is, just make it objective. It's a slippery slope if its handled on a case by case basis where the mods would have to decide on their own if someone is trustworthy or not. I feel like it would put people who aren't vocal in the "community" at a disadvantage.

mrcab55 likes this
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Requirements for High-Level Any% Runs

Any% (NTSC) runs below 4:57.000 must now fulfill additional requirements in order to be verified.

  • The run's full session must be included in the submission description.
  • For emulator runs below 4:57.000, some form of input display must be visible for the duration of the run. A hand-cam or input
3 months ago