Misc. Categories on the Leaderboards
7 years ago
Canada

So what are we going to do about this?

Canada

I think at least making a separate game for all the misc categories would do nicely, I know lots of people who've done 45/31 star, it wouldn't be as "empty" as you might think.

Pennsylvania, USA

It seems to be at a bit of a stand still, the responses seem kind of equal in terms of supporting it or not supporting it. I'm personally against adding it as another game, just because they aren't main categories doesn't mean they aren't runs done on the same exact game as runs we currently have on the boards. People might cite other games doing it, but as mentioned many times we don't follow other games but rather the community.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
North Carolina, USA

Having observed and participated in a few of these arguments over the years. I think that something akin to "super mario 64 memes" is likely the only chance for any of the misc categories to ever get a leaderboard on speedrun.com. No one can agree on what should/shouldn't be on the misc tab, and the result always seems to be to not use one at all. I don't mind submitting "super mario 64 memes" if people want this, if not you guys should probably get used to the idea of never having misc categories on speedrun.com.

I'm not saying this cause I am against using the misc tab, honestly idc if we put every idiot category under the sun in the misc tab, but I don't want to go against the grain, and the majority of runners do not seem to want this. If people want or are indifferent with the idea of a "super mario 64 memes" page I say go with that cause then maybe we'll never have to talk about this again.

Also, I was under the impression srcom was doing away with memes pages, but they just approved one for OoT so that does not seem to be the case. So, if we're gonna do this, we should do this, otherwise we're going to argue about this every couple months and my money is on "no misc categories".

OmegaFallon likes this
Ontario, Canada

I think another game is the best option as well. Having a tab will always cause arguments as to which categories should be on there and which shouldn't. Having it as another game hurts no one and provides a leaderboard for those wanting to run whatever misc. categories they choose.

Florida, USA

Don't worry about srcom not accepting sm64 memes, seeing as they've done so already: http://www.speedrun.com/sm64ique Kappa

GothicLogic likes this

look at ocarina of time, they have a ton of miscellaneous categories that only like one person runs. like shit, it's like top-3 most popular games on speedrun.com and they still added "100% no source requirement", even though at the time, only ZFG ran it.

it's a cool category. but, people didn't suddenly stop caring about any%, or 100%, just because there was a new category added. it's just another way to have fun with the game, and that's exactly what categories like 45 star and 31 star are. a new 120 star WR isn't gonna be less significant just because there's now more categories on the leaderboards which are hidden away. a 47 minute 70 star isn't less impressive because now some people are running a more obscure category. i promise it'll be okay.

OmegaFallon likes this
United Kingdom

Making a new game is the best option. On top of all the other reasons, as a mod I certainly don't want to get flooded with more and more runs to verify/reject of dumb categories that are done for fun. A new game would allow people who wanna deal with that shit to do that.

Pennsylvania, USA

Alaris, the majority didn't disagree against adding it though. At least not in this thread where the main discussion was supposed to take place, unless you're going off the all night shitposting about 22 star in the discord? This conversation has been far from one sided, if anything its leaning more towards misc rather than against it. But I'd say its pretty neutral

"as a mod I certainly don't want to get flooded with more and more runs to verify/reject of dumb categories that are done for fun."

Firstly, most people run any category for fun. Just because its been decided certain ones are "main" categories doesn't mean people don't run them for fun. Secondly, isn't the main argument against them that they will get no activity? Wouldn't you getting "flooded" with runs be a good thing, as people would be actively running the categories? The main argument against them was that they would be dead, so are you implying they will get activity if added? If so that just supports them being added even further. Also shouldn't you lean your opinion to what is better for the community, not what is easier for you pesonally? The mods here always claim to have "way too many mods", if this is the case 2 """dead""" categories shouldn't add to much to your heavy workload.

how on earth is making a new game the best option? the admins of the site implemented the "misc categories" dropdown for this exact purpose: miscellaneous categories which shouldn't share the same amount of space as the main categories.

also: in one breath you're [you meaning people against adding these categories, not YOU specifically] saying they shouldn't be added cause nobody runs them. but in another you're saying you don't want to be flooded with "more and more" runs? you can't have both too many runs to verify and too few runs to verify. which one is it? don't add them cause nobody runs them, or don't add them cause too many people will run them? or, add them, cause it's really not gonna be as big a deal as the people against this idea think it will be

edit:

also keep in mind these leaderboards:

https://www31.atwiki.jp/sm64/pages/18.html

they have a bunch of categories, and they're doing just fine. obviously it's not feasible or reasonable to try add things like the SUPER LIFE challenge, but if there's a framework to go by in terms of which categories we should have, that's it. it's also pretty good proof that there are actually people who run categories like 45 and 31, and that they're not just desolate wastelands which will sit on the leaderboards unused until the end of time.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Canada

Adding a new game isn't the best option, but if anything is going to happen it's going to be that so the elitists won't lose sleep over using the misc tab function's actual purpose. And an argument saying you don't wanna have to verify the truckloads of runs submitted for the misc categories contradicts the earlier argument of "no one would run them."

Edited by the author 7 years ago
North Carolina, USA

No one said anything in here but wait til we add a misc tab with 31, 45 and all coins and people will come out of the woodwork (cause that is exactly what happened last time). Misc lasted maybe 5 hours last time.

it shouldn't be a matter of people "coming out of the woodwork". obviously i'm biased cause i'm for it, but i've seen good arguments for it and really nothing substantial against it. like, let's look at some reasons not to do it:

  • Nobody runs / would run the categories! you can see the leaderboards which i linked above and will link below; while they were obviously less popular, they were still ran. https://www31.atwiki.jp/sm64/pages/19.html

  • The categories are arbitrary! so is 1 star and 16 star, but we keep those. i know that there are significant differences in popularity, but like i said before, they're not significant enough to completely disregard them.

  • There's not enough difference between 70 and 45 / 31 and 16 / etc... to justify having all of these categories! this one's actually not a horrible point, and so all i can do here is disagree. they are similar - you do end up getting the same stars - but i feel the popularity of these categories outweighs the similarity, which, in my opinion, isn't all there.

  • People will flood these categories with terrible, insignificant times! there are poor times in every category. while there are people with very poor times, these times are significantly outweighed by better times by people who take the category at least semi-seriously. and, as i've shown repeatedly before, even top-level runners run or have ran these misc. categories at a high level, so this isn't a problem.

  • But this takes away attention from the important categories! firstly, these runs will all be hidden away under the "misc. categories" tab - you really can't stow these runs away and stamp a "not as important" label on them more than by putting them under the "misc. categories" dropdown. OoT has a ton of misc. categories, but that doesn't stop a new any% record from hitting the top of /r/speedrun every single time.

  • But if we add these categories, we'll end up having to add every dumb arbitrary category! that's not true. we have a framework for established categories in the form the leaderboards i linked above. and outside of that, we can use common sense. no, this won't end up with a category for every number of stars. through looking at what the category brings to the table, how many people actually run the category, and how optimal the times for that category are.

e.g. all coins has a completely different route from any other category, and is ran by a non-zero number of middle-to-high-level players. 45 star, while not bringing many new strats to the table, is ran by many players, including very high level runners like xiah, puncay, batora, and biinny. however, 15 star [i.e. 1 star in every state] is ran by nobody in particular, and isn't very interesting. so, we can see which categories are worth adding, and which ones aren't.

and, worse case scenario, categories aren't decided by popular vote. if misc. categories do end up getting put in, and somewhere down the line someone says "hey, me and my friend run 119 star! put it in!" mods are allowed to say no to that.

  • I'll have to verify so many more runs! well, you're a mod. that's your job.

in the end, putting these categories into the leaderboards helps out the people who do run these categories, while not in any way negatively affecting the people who don't. there really is no good reason not to.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
North Carolina, USA

I hope those points aren't directed at me cause I was the one who added 31/45/all coins to misc the last time. I'm just sick of doing things and dealing with backlash, a memes page would minimize the bullshit I have to deal with (and i'm not talking about verifying runs)

i didn't mean those points in any antagonistic sort of way, especially towards you, being that you did add the categories last time - i'm just presenting the points as i see them and hoping they'll be useful in coming to a decision. for the sake of completeness, i tried to cover every point i could think of, including those which have already been mentioned in the thread. instead of going post by post trying to refute the points as they came up, i figured it'd be better to just get it out of the way in one post. if anyone has more points which i didn't cover, i'll add them to that post.

i apologize if the tone of that post was antagonistic.

edit: why was this thread locked? i'm not a part of the discord so it'd be cool to get an answer

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Illinois, USA

I believe we should add a Misc. Tab for the categories of 45 Star, 30/31 Star, etc. Adding such a tab allows for those categories to be more noticed to people who aren't as knowledgeable about SM64 as a speedgame. It will definitely increase the popularity of SM64 as those Misc. categories will provide a breath of fresh air apart from the usual 16 Star or 70 Star that most new runners would gravitate to.

For example, speaking on just 45 and 31 Star alone, they provide a mid-point between the short categories and the longer categories. Having a leaderboard for those categories will attract more runners.

Along with attracting new runners, having leaderboards for those categories in the same place as the main categories will allow for better organization, accuracy, and efficiency.

TL:DR ~ A misc. tab should be added for inclusion, organization, accuracy, efficiency, and appeal to more runners.

Pennsylvania, USA

I don't think 30 should be added, simply because it doesn't reach the end of the game.

PartlyAwesome likes this
Game stats
Followers
16,241
Runs
42,937
Players
7,301
Latest news
EMU/VC subcategories for Stage RTA

We would like to announce that VC and EMU subcategories are now active on the Stage RTA leaderboards (under "Levels"). Stage RTA involves collecting all the stars in a given stage including the 100 coin star. Timing starts on star select and ends upon collecting the final star. You are allowed to us

5 months ago
Latest threads
Posted 2 months ago
15 replies
Posted 3 years ago
5 replies
Posted 18 hours ago
803 replies
Posted 12 days ago
5 replies