GermanyYou can read the rules if you go to the Leaderboard and press 'View Rules'.
Also Important: the switch to using IGT was to avoid the impact of loading times and not to grant you free breaks. So continue on to the next level with haste. Else we need to think of some other timing method if this turns out not to work. Remember this is a speedrun board, so complete your run as quickly as possible. ;)
@kyletx500 I think the focus should be on doing the runs as quickly as possible (thats why it is extra underlined in the update post). Introduction of IGT was not meant to change the nature of the speedrun itself but only to neglect loading times, so I would consider it as an interruption.
@Zero169 The timer was never needed to begin with, but it helps if it is onscreen. You also do not need to stop your run and type in numbers if you want to know your pace. Just use the timer as usual and pause it on crossing finish lines and unpause on level starts.
Btw a timer onscreen doesn't prove that a run is legitimate and done in one go. It is simple to edit in a timer afterwards..
@k-Patch What changed is that there are multiple people running this game now and there is some competition. Since loading times even on same hardware are so far apart, it is the only somewhat convenient way I see to preserve fairness. Best thing would be some sort of autosplitter that does the job, but it doesn't exist.
Rules update for Level 1 category (13.12.2020): As discussed in the "Timing Method for 3DO Runs" topic the rules for Level 1 runs were adjusted for a more fair competition, while still keeping in mind that this is about speedrunning.
The adjustments are as follows:
- In-game time (IGT) is used as timing method but:
- No pausing allowed
- No IGT manipulation allowed
- No breaks on level transitions allowed (possible cutscenes should be skipped and the next level selected/started right away)
Legacy runs (aka runs before this update) are not affected by the no pausing allowed rule and the in-game time was left blank when it couldn't be verified (counted only one case)!
@k-Patch: Sorry, but thats the best compromise I could come up with. Keeping the main part that seperates skill (races) competitive while still supporting the speedrun idea (with those restrictions).
@Moorea: I only saw Bunny666Hunters run that didn't have it, but I don't know how you can precisely time it. IGT seems to only correlate with real time on PC version and I don't want to post guessed times here. IGT will probably be left blank and he will need to improve it.
About the Career mode you would probably want to restart if you get busted or fail since it will mess up your whole route or mean a huge time loss. But there is no current neccessity to think about it, no one has done a run yet. :P
@valdemarka If I remember correctly screen was wobbling all the time without it in Direct3D which is quite irritating. Probably because of the fps thing. Also colors look more ambient imo.
I played with 1024x768 resolution I think and used DgVoodoo with Direct3d. I also never payed attention to the doors.. but doesn't look like a major thing to me.
Original hardware is irrelevant tbh as you can always use an emulator and in the future original hardware of old consoles will become more and more of a rarity anyway..
So back to the topic: Given that the difference in loading times can be that huge I think we need to switch to IGT. But not to get the wrong idea, the IGT should serve as means to provide a more fair competition and not to replace the importance of your real time performance. A speedrun should be a speedrun after all.. so in other words just because we will switch to IGT, doesn't mean you are now free to take coffee (or any other sort of) breaks during your run!
I propose those rules for full-game runs:
- Ingame time is used as timing method, but:
- No pausing allowed (was already introduced)
- No IGT manipulation allowed (don't know any in this game besides maybe deliberately running your game slower on emu, but just to be on the safe side)
- No breaks on level transitions allowed (possible cutscenes should be skipped and the next level selected/started right away)
For Big Game Mode(Career Mode) time during the menu for buying a bike should be added manually. I don't see a way around it.. but it isn't urgent anyway. Probably will adjust rules later when there is really need for it..
If there are no objections or other suggestions to the proposed rules (majority appears to support switching to IGT here), I would make the changes in one week. For retiming I would probably make a spreadsheet or something that automatically calculates those typed in times. And those rule restrictions would only concern future runs (I know one run that used short pausing, but I think retroperspectively "ban" a run is unfair to the runner, unless screen with the IGT is missing).
And about the ILs, you can get any bike in Career Mode, even the fastest one in Level 1 if you repeat races enough. Adding those Level 1-4 tracks to ILs would result in people using the fastest bike anyway. So I don't see the point since those are just shorter versions of the same repeating tracks. But if there really is a need for that, it might be added later. Btw the bike you get in in Thrash Mode Level 5 is only the second fastest bike (on PC version at least and I assume same for consoles too?).
When pausing the game you hear no sound, so you could theoretically edit out all the time inbetween. Possibly also on transitions after levels, but there you can't do anything about it. At least this way you put some constraints to it.
It is especially important for ILs. Note we use ingame time there for convenience (to not have to time manually). And by pausing during the race you abuse this because it was just introduced for convenience sake and not to allow you taking a break during the run. What matters is still your real time performance.
Additionally ingame time appears to not correlate with real time on some platforms, so it only makes sense to use it as long as it is consistent. This can be guaranteed only with no pausing during the race from what I know.
It is not new, but good to have footage of it. You can also do that with the closer ladder, so you only need to move straight up from what I remember.
I tried many spots too. Sometimes it was just a pixel off and.. dead. Hopefully this one is more forgiving. :)
It sounds like it would be more fitting into the GTA Extensions section. Don´t think a demo with one mission deserves to have full category for it on the main board.
Btw you should check out discord server of gta. You will get a response more quickly than here.
It makes no sense to forbid running on certain platforms. If there would be a Any% NME category you could run it on different platforms and each platform would be seperated because the games on PS and PC differ enough to justify it. I personally would be for Any% NME on PC version since no one plays the PS anyway. But if people start to play it, we could of course create a seperate category for that if needed.
And about car stacking, I honestly think that it should never even be possible to occur if you only focus on missions and frenzies on PC. I mean you would need like over 10 cars for it to have some significant effect, how is that supposed to happen with regular traffic?
A NME category would make some sense, since the whole car stacking crap is no fun. Would not be against it. PS would have its own categories anyway if someone would make some runs and want it on the board.
@Frika Yes, IGT was introduced to have basically a "reliable" loadless time. The issue I'm trying to bring up here is that by manipulating the IGT you just circumvent the reason why it was introduced in the first place. You will now have your times displayed as faster, but your actual performance is the same or slower. That makes no sense from a speedrun perspective where actual faster performance counts.
Runner of another Road Rash, but a general question: the paused run in the video appears to be slower than the normal one, so you aren´t any faster in reality. Is the point of speedrunning this game to get a faster run or to just pretend to have a faster time (by manipulating the in-game timer in this case)?
I agree that load times suck, especially on consoles because of the emulators. Maybe it will be changed in the future, but there need to be additional rules like no pauses during run and how to account time spent in menu in career mode. Btw current WR is on real hardware, a PS2 FDS.
Hi and well, pro and cons of IGT I could think of would be:
- load times don´t matter
- less convenient to calculate
- tricks like falling off bike before exit to get end of race screen faster will suddenly become a time loss (-) time for menuing is not considered (although here not as big of a deal compared to career mode where you can buy bikes) (-) you can pause your game, go grab a sandwich and then continue and time would be same for someone who didn´t do it even though you in reality are much slower (hard to detect if someone really cheats anyway though)
So yeah.. I´m not convinced that IGT is really the best timing method for a full-game category and there isn´t really any urgent necessity to make changes now.
