Getting really frustrated with the end of Mission 12. Seems completely random where he goes and whether he sees you or not. Anyone have a consistent strat for this?

EDIT: I think I figured one out. It's not super fast, but at least it's consistent. I may post it if nobody else has anything.

Yes, by any% I meant new games.

Well, if it's "All Mission," technically the Prologue isn't a mission. If we're going to get into semantics. I'm fine with eliminating it from NG+ runs. Needs to stay on any% runs though.

Here's the back up strat for the quick kill on Mission 22. It's exactly 30 seconds slower than the helicopter shot, but much much faster than actually climbing up there and getting him. Has worked every time for me that I've tried it so far.

My god, Pewable, how do you come up with this stuff?

That is pretty ridiculous. And amazing.

I think needless to say though, we should put down a rule, "Must start mission from one of the default mission start areas." We could create a new category for this, but I don't really see people running it. Every run would end up being like 10 seconds. Maybe I'm wrong though. Either way, it should absolutely not be allowed in the regular categories.

Actually, on one platform at least, he always spawns in the same spot. The back up strat (running to the helipad and shooting a rocket up at a spot on the wall) hits him 10/10 times.

The problem with the helicopter shot is the shot itself. You have about 1 second to switch weapons, aim, switch shoulders, zoom, and hit the right spot, all with the helicopter moving and Snake's hands shaking. Every time I hit the right spot, it got him. Problem is actually hitting it.

I actually think if you practiced the shot for hours and hours, you could probably hit it fairly consistently. It's just really hard.

I'll record/upload the back up strat for people who want to do any%.

Umm... so this happened. LOL

I only hit it twice out of maybe 20 attempts. So it's likely not that reliable for any% runs. But you lose nothing for trying it. I also found a back-up strat that ends the mission in about 30 seconds after landing if people want me to upload that. It's easy and consistent.

So yeah, assuming you've got the rocket launcher by this mission, it's really short/easy for any% runs.

If you're running a fresh game save, then it's always 1 platform. NG+ is 4 platforms. This guy is doing it on 2 platforms, so it can't be used in an any% run. You'd have to construct another R&D platform around mission 14-15 or so to be able to do it this way. But you don't pick up the materials to do that.

I'll load up a save file with one platform today and play around with it. See what I can find.

Just tested. You are right Skippy. It is 3/4 of those missions + medical platform completion. Basically 18 minutes from the second you finish your 6th mission (Mission 10).

When you say close the game, you mean go to the title menu, or close the entire program?

Yeah, he announces that and it usually happens before Huey announcement but not always. Not sure why.

Interesting, I will test this out today.

I'm just still a bit skeptical because on Pykn's run, he gets the Quiet announcement AFTER the Huey announcement.

@dekuking: I haven't timed it, but in one of my test runs, I went to Mission 4 on horseback and it felt longer to me. That's not scientific, but my sense is it's faster to ACC to it.

@skippyy13: I don't think this is the determining factor as in one of my saves I have the Med platform but the first deployment doesn't give me Huey. But if I restart mission, THEN it gives me Huey. Similarly in Pykn's run, he has the Med platform but has to re-deploy 3+ times to get Huey to spawn.

I think the platforms come up based on total number of missions completed, whereas Huey requires a certain number of total deployments.

Which is why we would make a rule that you can't use glitched weapons. Otherwise, from now on, everyone who wants to run those levels or NG+ is going to be forced to find old installations of the game. I.e., it's going to be really discouraging for any new runners who come to the game because old runners with glitched weapons will have a huge advantage on many levels.

Not to mention console runners (as already discussed).

It's really early on in this game's speed running life, I think it's important to keep the game as open and accessible for new people to run as possible and foster as much competition as possible.

Just my two cents.

OK, did some more testing this today and I have good news. It's much simpler than I thought.

CURRENT THEORY: To spawn Huey you have to complete 3/4 of Missions 7-10 (meaning minimum 8 missions total) AND reach 12 total deployments.

What are deployments?

Basically anything:

• Any Mission, including the prologue
• Restarting any mission (through menu or otherwise)
• Any deployment in free-roam or motherbase

When you deploy via Chopper, you DO NOT have to do anything in free-roam to count the deployment, and you don't even have to touch the ground. The game counts it as a deployment the moment Snake opens the helicopter door.

What are NOT deployments?

• Restarting checkpoints
• Menu'ing out before Snake opens the helicopter door
• Free-roam after exfiltrating a mission on foot.

This is why sometimes runners instantly get access to Huey after they complete their 8th mission. If they restarted missions more than 3 times early on, then they have already reached 12 deployments. If you finish eight missions and haven't restarted once, then that means you've only had 9 total deployments and you have to redeploy 3 times to get Huey to spawn.

THE FASTEST WAY TO ACHIEVE 12 DEPLOYMENTS: Is to simply 'Restart Mission' on Mission 10 for however many times you need. If you reach Mission 10 and have not had to restart any of your missions yet, you should restart Mission 10 three separate times so that you have the requisite 12 deployments and Huey will spawn automatically when you complete Mission 10. I've tested this on two different save files now and it also lines up with Pykn's run.

IF you have fucked up your run and had to restart a couple missions, then you only have to restart on Mission 10 as many times as you need to reach 12. So let's say you had to restart missions twice in the beginning of your run, then that means you only have to restart mission 10 once to achieve the necessary 12 deployments. If you've really had a bad run and have restarted more than 3 times, then you don't have to restart mission 10 at all, Huey's side op will instantly spawn.

Dekuking: Yes, I think that may end up being the fastest route. Especially because Side Op 1 spawns right next to the comm equipment, so it's easy to run through it to get to the station.

I'm pretty sure starting a mission in deployment does NOT count as a deployment. As far as I can tell, the game sees missions as one thing and then free-roam activities (side-ops/animals/etc) as another. Not positive about this though.

Also, you CAN and probably SHOULD skip Quiet, see Pykn's run to see how. Right now, the only way I can see Quiet being worth it at all in any run is if Mission 45 turns out to be WAY shorter than Mission 46 for any% second ending. OR if it turns out she becomes incredibly useful for some missions. Because just based on my loose timing last night, picking her up adds at least 6+ minutes game time. (2 minutes to get to her, 2 minutes to beat her, then about 2 minutes of forced cutscenes/dialog/chopper if you decide to keep her).

Breezer: these are good ideas, I'll try and test them today.

Goal today is to set up a save game file with missions 1-4, 6-8, 10 all completed with no deployments and then test exactly what qualifies as a deployment and what doesn't and confirm how many are required.

Just tested it, beating Quiet does NOT replace one of the 7-10 missions.

So I've started routing and practicing the vanilla any% run and the first major problem you come across is how to get Huey's mission to spawn to get the story to proceed. Pykn runs into this problem in his runs and tries a few things. I watched his videos and then spent most of tonight experimenting with different configurations. Here's what I've learned so far.

TL;DR = To get Huey to spawn you need to complete 3/4 of missions 7-10 AND deploy in free roam/motherbase at least twice. (My current theory, not confirmed).

1. Before I explain why I think the above is true, it's important to know that the way the missions become available isn't exactly linear. They spawn in the following order

Prologue Mission 1 Mission 2 Missions 3-5 Mission 6 Missions 7-10 Mission 11¤ Mission 12¤

The prologue and missions 1-2 are forced and cannot be avoided. After mission 2 you are given missions 3-5 all at once. Once you've completed two of those three missions, mission 6 opens up. Once you complete mission 6, missions 7-10 all open up.

To get Huey to spawn, you need to complete 3/4 of missions 7-10 and deploy in free roam at least twice (more on that below).

At first I thought you just had to complete 8 missions. But if you complete 1-8, Huey will not spawn. Whereas if you complete 1-4, 6-8, 10, he will.

It makes sense that the game calculates progress based on a percentage of the missions it opens up at once. When it opens up 3-5, it requires 2/3 to open up the honey bee mission for you to proceed. Similarly, it requires 3/4 of 7-10 to open up Huey.

2. Deploying at least twice. I'm still testing this but this is more or less what I've figured out:

• Dropping into Afghanistan and menu'ing out is NOT count as a deployment by the game.
• Stopping by Motherbase and interacting/cutscene IS considered a deployment.
• Going back and redoing a previous mission IS NOT counted as a deployment. [Still testing]
• Dropping into Afghanistan and triggering a side-op (entering the blue circle on the map) and then choppering out DOES count. [Still testing this but pretty sure about this.]

3. Getting Quiet to show up. Both Quiet and Huey are announced by Ocelot via radio. If you have completed Mission 6 but NOT completed 3/4 of 7-10 AND you deploy 2+ times, instead of radioing you to tell you that Huey is available, Ocelot will radio you and tell you about a Sniper. You can then go to the ruins and get Quiet.

It's still unclear if Quiet is even worth getting in any of these full game runs, but it's still useful to know.

THINGS TO STILL TEST:

• Does extracting animals still count as a deployment? My guess is yes. Anything the game considers save-worthy (checkpoint, animal, etc.) is a deployment.
• Does completing Quiet's mission + 3 deployments immediately grant access to Huey? [This is actually how I got notified of Huey in my first playthrough]. This could potentially be huge because you create a new route of:

Prologue Missions 1-4 Mission 6 3 Deployments Get Quiet Get Huey

Allowing you to skip missions 7-10 entirely. This would be a massive time save.

• And of course, I still need to test when exactly Quiet becomes available. Judging by Huey's mechanic, I'm guessing it's completion of Mission 6 plus 3 deployments. But I'm not sure yet. I have tested it with 1-4, 6, 8, and 10 completed and I got her announcement. Quiet's mission is pretty short and much safer than missions 7 and 8, so it may be worth replacing one of those missions with her if possible.

Please feel free to add anything you find. I'll keep updating as I learn more over the coming days.

Isn't Perfect Stealth (Peacenik) the same as no reflex?

Ahem... that's actually five levels if you count the extreme versions. Or essentially 10% of the game.

I could also see it potentially messing up both "Backup, Back Down" levels, 100% runs on "Code Talker" and "Traitor's Caravan" and not to mention every single NG+ All Missions category.

So yeah, that's way, way more than 1% of runs being affected.

And even if you don't agree that that's not a convincing argument, you still haven't offered any reason to keep it.

Again, I don't think the issue is just console vs pc. The issue is a glitch that breaks certain levels vs glitchless. I'm a PC runner and I feel like there's no point in running certain levels now. Which bums me out because I love the game and would love to run a bunch of different types of levels.

And before you say, "Well, run them anyway," I think that misses the point of speedrunning communities in the first place. It's not about having "1st" next to your name. It's the spirit of competition - both with yourself, but also with others - that makes it so fun and interesting. In my opinion, the glitch harms that spirit of competition, and thus harms the opportunities to speed run the game.

But I've said my piece. I'm done with the thread. If some people feel strongly about keeping it for various reasons, I'm totally fine with that. I just haven't seen anyone put forth any reasons other than, "Stop complaining," which to me isn't a very good argument.