Very nice. When is the new point of dumping this helicopter`?

The problem is you do end up gaining three stars. I actually might not use a cab there in the future and just go straight pay and spray. For classic% you'd normally have a helicopter. A grenade does work, but i found it to be rng. Never thought about using a RPG. Nice find.

This is a huge time save for classic% Easy 5 minute time save. Very nice find. I'm just thinking about uses for that in any%

Have you tested it with Roman's Sorrow? The despawn zone there is normally huge and time costely to keep the helicopter.

Nice one. I tried multiple things and my first thought was ramming him with a car into the water. That of course is unreliable. That you can aggro him without him running away as long as you don't injure him is obviously better. Another small thing is that you can get get rid of the bike in no way then the subway and change it for a decent car before entering the subway. It doesnt save time. (timings were the same with a decent car swap compared to driving the Angel all the way) but after the mission ended an actual car is obviously better for classic%. Death Warping there also doesnt make any sense because getting to the street into a cab on any% is really fast.

Well Brucie already is beaten by 10 minutes. My target goal is 54 minutes or maybe 55. Gold splits are 48 something. So the optimization has to come late game. It will happen. But first I need to get a run where up to three leaf glover it is perfectly routed and executed.

Loading times way too often are a mystery to me. The biggest one is after Bleed Out that can happen and cannot happen. Sometimes it goes by fast, sometimes not.

The same thing happens for a game that is freshly started. Loading is slow. And even after that it can be random. So I always used to start my timer after I see the actual car. I also can split after skipping the cutscene and it goes black, altough I could swear even that gives you different frames.

I don't care neither way, I do believe there needs to be a definite rule everyone does abide too. Altough this game is far from being so optimized that a few seconds in timing makes a difference.

So kinda very disapointed in the discussion right now. The way a discussion works is that you try to respond to other people points and explain why you feel they are in the wrong.

So far noone who wants the 33% traffic density has actually gone into discussing the arguments for it but rather mention that it should not be changed because if any current runners can change a category it would not work.

Right now we have two active runners. This is an opinion I didnt form out of nowhere. I resetted the game 2500 times and can't even count the time I spend in it. This doesnt make my opinion more worthy, but my experience shown me that the traffic density gets you further away from that clean run even for the best kind of players.

Have the people here who want the traffic density at 33 actually played the game at 1 for some time? Can you actually objectevely describe the differences or is it just a kneejerk reaction.

In December I tought of vehicle density 33 very well. I thought it was a good idea and getting fucked by traffic belongs into a game. That kind of mindsets works as long as you only go for a PB. If you actually try to defeat the game and get a time close to the possible it becomes a problem because you realize every time you get blocked by traffic, you'll lose time.

I cannot stretch the fact, that traffic density 1 doesn't remove the traffic. It doesn't affect cops spawns (actually makes it sometimes more difficult to escape the cops because they dont get blocked as often).

I for sure know that it wouldn't be fun when I come back to classic after any% and have to deal with 33% vehicle density. I understand why this rule exists, but like I said at the same time it doesn't make sense.

Console runs are not comparable and will not be comparable. We currently don't even have a category for console because noone does it and I doubt someone ever will. So why have a rule for it.

For the argument that traffic belongs into classic GTAs I already stated my point that in older GTAs traffic gets removed by one mean or the other. If someone would forbid the topdown camera for GTA3 it would be ridiculous. No reason to limit the game further.

What really changed with GTA4 are the cabs. Cabs defintely take something big out of the game and that is the routing inbetween missions and I agree there should be no fast travel.

Also another point I like to refute is the fact that your menuing skills are more important with a vehicle density that is not fixed.

No it isn't. Even in any% I only change the density about ~10 times.

In classic% you would change it literally nowhere and only if you need a quick car spawn but even so you normally get cars to spawn (like after Easy Fare) without a problem that you can use for the next missions.

I have nothing against a rule that would prohibit changing traffic density in a run because, like I said, it would be irrelevant and it wouldn't matter if it would exist in the first place.

I want to have a more open debate here that is here for everyone to see and not in IRC.

I want to see arguments against reasons for wanting it to see changed.

1

You've already said that there's no time benefit to be had by lowering vehicle density but haven't answered my assertion that it makes the game more difficult and therefore more fun and interesting.

Well, one's opinion is not the one of somebody else. Having a higher vehicle density is not really fun because most of the time it's irrelevant. In this game it is not difficult to maneuver through the traffic and find a path. But when your route (most infamous drive would be the Janitor in it's your call) is blocked you will not get consistency. It's just bullshit and nothing more. That makes having comparable times more difficult.

It's RNG that you simply don't need and noone should need. Also I feel like that it also is for some parts irrelevant because you have a helicopter making some drives with a car compared to helicopter less competetive, just because you have that bit of rng that even the best driver sometimes can't avoid to lose time upon.

Reduce TD to 1 and you've removed this mechanic almost entirely, resulting in an easier and, in my opinion, more boring game.

I play in any% currently on 1. It is not gone. It still exists and it still is very annoying when you have to slow down because traffic blocks the optimal route. It's just less, but still there. Driving in this game is difficult enough, you don't need more traffic than there has to be. Which brings me to the next point:

It's supposed to be classic because 3D Gta had to route inbetween missions and that is the part that gets interesting because using a taxi removes that routing. Vice City had failed mission skips by giving you a cabbie if you died and you can get to the mission marker. But even bigger and more importan, every single 3D Gta has a way of despawning traffic. GTA3 has camera switching and top down, VC has the camera backwards facing and San Andreas uses also the camera to despawn. All these games remove traffic. Why should the same not be allowed if it is possible to set down the traffic density?

People don't think any% is the golden ball for GTA 4. Those few people (including me) do classic% for the challenge, but I also started doing any% to get a run that actually goes to the limit of the game, which I still find fun to do. It's just different. It is a different category and not worse or better.

Now the traffic density set to 33% argument because of consoles dies for the same reason. Console is a different category, that is not comparable to PC and it never will be. And it's not like there are console runs to compare to the PC version in the first place.

Classic% is routing inbetween missions and not using auto save warping (even though in any% it's rarely used). This is already a challenge and is enough fun. I can only have so much fun dodging traffic all the time (i might as well just casually play it then). Like I said I know for sure, that vehicle density 1 doesnt mean no traffic rng. You still need to be able to get around traffic.

Currently only Kyle and me are left that put something into this game and like I said I want to see this game have a bigger community and having rules that don't make sense for the biggest part aren't helping.

Traffic density is a thing and it doesn't break the game or destroys the legacy of 3D GTA's. Those also have their own ways of breaking traffic.

I still haven't heard from Mhmd, but I submitted Sleeping Dogs any%. Guess I do it here too. So far nothing seems to happen planingwise. So is this Marathon going to happen or not?

I knew that one was possible with the miniguns, But it's difficult to fire them and not fly into the cutscene.

You can also use the miniguns on Photo Shoot very nicely without having to land.

Hey Eidgod, I'm streaming GTA IV Speedruns and would like to be invited.

Thanks a lot.

Feurigerilias

I want to make a race with all the german speaking runners. So hit me up if you are interested.