The title is self explanitory but I'll provide a bit extra information.

https://imgur.com/gallery/rV0LhAU Speedrun.com guidelines about Turbo Mode. It has been calculated by community members based on fire rates in the demo that LBG and HBG get a reasonable boost from the use of turbo mode, the testing shows as followed. Demo LBG 12.3 seconds per 16 shots on a cheap $20 controller with turbo mode vs 12.8 seconds manually for 16 shots on an offical Pro Controller, HBG in the demo gets a much bigger boost to speed but will likely require extra inputs to swap turbo on and off during runs while using alternate fire.

These numbers seem small and at the end of the day the better player will likely come out on top, so the question is whether to allow Turbo Mode (Which requires third party hardware or an advantage, also saves people from carpal tunnel) and add a variable to check so people can denote whether or not they're using Turbo mode, or to ban it entirely.

If anyone here would like to vote as an anon, shoot me a DM on SRC or Discord and your vote will be counted.

I think it is not a good idea to allow "turbo". I see a couple of problems...

1. New runners may think they need it and are put off because they don't want to invest extra money again ( I would not buy an extra controller for this, I would leave it)
2. What about runners with a Switch Lite, how many wireless controllers with turbo buttons are there? (Most of them should be wired, I think)
3. They may be small numbers especially in IL runs, but in a full run it can make more of a difference It's still "competitive" somewhere, so everyone should have the same opportunities

but if the majority are in favor of turbo, it's okay for me, but maybe not as a filter option but maybe something like "Any% w / Turbo"

These are very valid concerns. I don't think we'd go as far as to create a seperate category for them, but we would definitely add turbo as a variable that can be toggled while searching through runs https://imgur.com/gallery/NVZi9Pu Here is a rough draft of what it would look like on the boards plus a way to toggle between runs that use Turbo and runs that don't.

hm okay, is it true that the variable makes more sense.

but it would still be the question of how far this affects full runs. I am an HBG player myself and have full runs to do, but if turbo saves a lot of time, I would probably stop running. In the end you can only see that when Rise has been released and a little time has passed. I'm just worried that afterwards you won't be able to compete without turbo. and that can scares off new runners. I dont know...

And yes, I could also write that in Discord, but on the one hand something happens here in the forum and on the other hand it takes me forever to write in English, so I'm probably too slow for most discussions :/ I'm also shy :X

EDIT: What is with Multiplayer Runs? shouldn't you then have to specify that "Turbo" actually only counts for HBG and LBG? I mean when a group has a gunner with them (like mine)

I'm not sure how that would work, I will ask Jal as he's probably more knowledgable on it. I'd like to assume there would be a way to add a variable per runner but if not if there is a runner using Turbo in the group it'd likely be listed as Turbo.

At first I didn't think about the multiplayer runs either, but of course that is also a matter that needs to be clarified. I hope Jal can help a little how to best solve this.

id be heavily be against the use of Turbo mode, as it forces good times with bowguns to use it, to not get a disatvantage.

I'll be the devil's advocate in this and say that there should be a turbo option. If people are really worried about the price of a turbo controller vs a pro controller, then they'll be pleased to know that some cheapy wireless ones are available on amazon for 20-30 usd as opposed to the official pro controller that is 60 dollars. If cost is the worry, then the cheaper price is more of an incentive to getting the turbo. If a person is running Switch Lite, then they don't have to worry since there appears to be quite a handful of wireless turbo controllers available on amazon. And since the turbo controllers are half the price of the nintendo one, runners with Switch Lites can spend more money on setups and rigs if they want to so they can record their runs.

As for people worried about new dudes getting intimidated with the turbo button, then they can always press the button on the leaderboard to toggle turbo runs on and off. And even then, with poor play, shooting 10% faster can mean you can miss more often because you're shooting faster than you can aim if you can't aim, so the better player will come out on top. But when it comes to top level play, then chances are that both players are willing to invest 30 dollars to push these times to be as fast as possible.

But lastly, the turbo option should be there since there will be people who will decide to use turbo anyway, but will choose to not disclose that information with anyone who is watching. People who are aware of turbo will then have to wonder whether or not this guy is really good with his button presses or is just turboing away. But with the option for your run to be labeled as turbo on the board, it will allow people to label their runs as such without the constant suspicion of did they or did they not use turbo.

I'm in the camp of allowing it. Also, TalonLumini's post stand the same with me, so I won't repost them here. but I think it would be easier to allow it and have people run with it than to try to find those who use it to cheat. Just cause it is there as an option, doesn't mean it has to be used by ALL runners.

But I do want to stress, I'm a lancer/gunlancer main, and I honestly am not who this is honestly relating to since this is a bowgun related thing for more IL style runs compared to full runs. Since one weapon is always faster than another and really only effects the leaderboards of those weapons. So IL runs are their own thing for sure.

Looking away from IL style runs. If turbo is allowed, In storyline based runs would make things more consistent to get through mashing/cutscenes as well, which would make things more accessible for others who have issues with mashing and can focus on the hunts. But I can see this being a much bigger issue if people run the full game versus a few optimal mashes in a IL. Although both differences would be significant as well compared to non turbo respectively. But it would save hands and we can filter them by toggling turbo on the leaderboard.

But if someone wants to do it, they will find a way anyways to do so around the rules, so by allowing them to use turbo, albeit a leaderboard on their own things or like Gemini posted above the variable in the runs would do better. IL's are their own thing for sure. But then again, it would be those weapons versus the LBG and HBG as well so there will always be a variance in the leaderboards in my eyes. But I can see a benefit to allowing Turbo.

Edit: Meant to say, the idea of a 4 player hunt, where only 1 side is recorded and 3 others could be using turbo is scary as well to try to identify the use of turbo or seasoned mashers. Making runners saying if they used turbo is a better option than trying to count frames/data to see if a run is legit or turbo assisted.

Exactly what Talon said, look back at Iceborne. People are gonna use it no matter what, so it makes no sense to outright ban it, especially when the only ones I've seen so far with dissenting opinions are well... not gunners so this won't really affect them (Besides Ushanti) I didn't wanna say "Oh only gunners are allowed to vote on this matter." because that's lame. Anyone can decide to do runs with guns whenever they want, but keep in mind community decisions like this can always be repolled, just please try to consider what's best for the community and moderation team instead of instantly dropping no on matters that don't currently affect you.

In a perfect world we could say no turbo and be done with it. But all of the concerns about people trying to find a way to sneak it in, and the burden that would put on verifying runs then, are 100% true and valid. My stance is always that if there be any tool assist in any way (RNG fixing for health/Turbo-mode/basically anything not stock), just have it be its own category. I know some people get really upset when I suggest that things as small as that are tool assisted for some reason, but that's basically what they are. If someone gets sneaky and tries to submit a tool assisted run in the wrong category, then that's on whatever moderators feel a punishment should be (runs cleared? banned from submissions? honestly not sure how harsh things are.) Just my thoughts, thanks for all the hard work you moderators do!

So I fully agree with Shepard, I already mentioned that with the own category. and the way Shepard explains it makes even more sense to have a category of its own. this is similar to "DLC" and "No DLC" because a distinction is made and usually not only with one variable.

As someone who is considering running this, and someone who has mained LBGs quite a bit, I thought I'd toss in my two cents too even if this discussion is already over with. It's already been a week since anyone's said anything anyway.

Traditionally speaking, I'm against turbo in games because it requires hardware that isn't stock with the console. But this is kind of a special circumstance. The controllers that are stock with the Nintendo Switch are the joycons. If pro controllers are allowed, I believe turbo controllers should be allowed too. Pro controllers may be officially licensed, but they are an additional cost all the same. If any amount of money is allowed to change how you speedrun the game, then you should be allowed to choose which controller you're using, including ones that have turbo. What further makes me go this route is that there are officially licensed third party controllers with turbo functions, such as the HORI one, which costs a third the price of a pro controller.

And while I personally love the joy cons, I doubt most other people would feel the same way.

Personally I am not a fan of turbo when competing for something like world record. Yes, moderates would need to be vigilant, and should be vigilant when reviewing the videos. Why not make a mouse and keyboard category? why not make a category for every little change we as runners decide to make to suit our own needs? because that would be way too much to deal with. there is a standard that is set and going beyond it starts creating wiggle room for more and more things. A DLC category was made for world because CAPCOM introduced DLC armor that would greatly affect the runs, but it was available to everyone. Using a turbo controller to press your own time forward, that is selfish. its not a strategy, its not a tool in game, and its not/should not be allowed.