United KingdomIt wasn't fun just because of them losing all of their runs to it.
You're not gonna lose runs to trading over half a certificate and blocking Count Draynor (which without an alt, would lose you runs and be extremely not fun)
EZScape, you make a really good point about the authenticator setup being used but not being fun to do. This is no different.
I think you overestimate the difficulty/use of an alt for the route.
Stuff like this where you can just trade it over (or use it on an ironman) This is less effort than what people currently do you just so happen to have another client open.
It doesn't warrant a separate category it's a pretty basic strat. It's trying to make a separate category just 'cause of not liking logging into an alt but also wanting to keep WR potential. That's absurd.
I'm not having this discussion here lmfao
Categories are split for N64, VC and emulator. Again, I am extremely confused as to why you are mentioning this here.
I agree with pretty much everything EZScape is saying.
Captain, to answer your question, it can be. Not sure why you think it can't and also not sure why you even brought it up in this discussion.
The whole run is an ironman run using the limitations of ironman. Everything you just said isn't relevant to that.
I will ask again because that's another person who's brought it up, how is using someone else's fire and picking up someone else's ashes different?
Both require someone else to make a fire Both can be avoided by making your own fire
Either allow both or ban both (it should be allowed)
To say it's an oversight at this point I don't agree with. They've dealt with problems from ironman mode such as general stores and tanking bosses so they could very well change it.
Like EZScape said, we should move away from 'spirit of the gamemode' arguments because that's what speedrunning is really. We're going against the spirit of the games.
I don't see any difference with picking up another person's ashes and using someone else's fire. Both of those require someone else to create the fire.
So just to reiterate my point about picking up someone else's ashes; this is an MMO like EZScape said. That means using the game's features to your advantage. One of these features so happens to be that other people are playing at the same time as you. Jagex didn't restrict ironmen from picking up ashes from someone else's fire which means it's allowed under the rules of ironman. Going against the spirit of something in speedrunning isn't relevant. As speedrunners we go against the spirit of playing the game how the developers originally intended in the first place, again like EZScape said. Also if you're for using someone else's fire on tutorial island but against picking up someone else's ashes, that makes no sense to me.
Now regarding allowing other multilog things like alts to open doors and the possibility of SoA, I have mixed feelings but I'm definitely leaning on the side of allowing them for reasons mentioned above.
I don't think we should create separate categories because given the nature of the strats used, a category would just be made for the sake of creating a category for not liking certain strats.
Gotta say I agree. I change from thinking only picking up other people's ashes being allowed to also allowing a diff account to open doors and such.
Question though, if SoA multilogging with an alt was used, would this be faster than what is done now? What would be swapped out?
I also don't think that separate categories should be created.
All of your points I agree with, LadyRedpool, however you didn't acknowledge picking up ashes from someone else's fire which Jagex let ironmen do.
I personally think that the only "multilog" strat that should be allowed is picking up someone else's ashes from their fire. This is allowed under the normal ironman rules set by Jagex.
Things like killing alts, opening up all the doors in the run on an alt or using an alt for benefits such as those are abusing methods rather than using methods like with the ashes.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having to hope that you pass by someone lighting fires and ashes being on the ground, it adds another element of "player RNG" like with buying wines.
The answer is no and if you don't want to save do what Enigmaa said (which is what people do in runs already)
Where are you going to build up the speed to HSWK through the 50 star door and up the endless staircase without a BLJ even with TAS?
It always amazes me that people somehow manage to find and link 16 star guides that I have never heard of every single time. Use the guide in the guides section of this site, not some random bad player on YouTube.
