There is a loooooooooot of time save left, but not enough where one day all that demo mode time save + the same RNG for D/Fat Cat + the RNG ship boss won't be faster.
And that's still the underlying problem at the end of the day with all this.
demo + current WR is already not faster than the non-RNG WR and never will be (endy's 9:54.19 - 16.7 = 9:37.49, not possible)
I don't see an issue with that at all. Timing starts from character selection because then we're "playing" the game
also, it'd be unfair to old runs to switch to timing from power on, because sometimes they waited on the title screen anyway even without RNG locking.
Mashing on the title screen is a QOL downgrade for sure.
Yeah, it's again not ideal since boards were never separated earlier when this was found.
As far as I understand from RNG changing per frame in this game, it would be entirely possible to get a RNG run where you get all the benefits of the demo mode RNG, and the best spaceship kill non-demo can provide. It's also possible there's better patterns RNG can provide. I'm not sure what else is exactly known (in the sense demo mode is fastest or not.) So once a run like that happens, and it will one day, everyone who ran demo mode will have a permanently "uncompetitive" time in the sense if you continued to run demo mode, you will never be able to go under the best RNG times.
It changes per frame, but there's no way to ensure what frame you move on to the next level for the next level's RNG
It'd be a helluva grind to get perfect RNG with optimized strats, and if (and maybe when) that day comes, then good! But that doesn't make there an issue now, at all.
I just see it as a bunch of people not wanting to wait 16.7 seconds because it bothers them (but doesn't bother plenty of us)
personally, I see getting past zone B twice a stream (endy's estimate was maybe 1 in 50 runs, his WR stream he got out of B twice....which goes down even further now that 0 and B are more optimized than they were 4-5 years ago) thanks to terrible RNG a bigger hurdle/pain point to getting into this game at a competitive level than waiting 16.7 seconds each attempt
I think the very fact end game that will be the end result makes it an issue for sure, but this is where I would have agree to disagree. :) Since boards were never separated, timing was never adjusted and this manipulation happens before timing even starts, and, one day, won't even be relevant once people start grinding for RNG and better times demo mode can provide, it just creates a nonsensical decision to me to forbid bypassing it in the present.
As you said, it's not an issue now, but one day once running RNG becomes the norm again, restricting everyone now who doesn't in not allowing them to start the run immediately doesn't make any sense with the future in mind. If RNG becomes normalized in the future and people still choose to run demo mode, will they still be forced to wait the 16 seconds then? Again, strictly in context related to this specific game, it makes no sense, both present or in the future.
"If RNG becomes normalized in the future and people still choose to run demo mode, will they still be forced to wait the 16 seconds then?"
Yes! There's literally no issue with waiting 16.7 seconds. None.
But then this entire board becomes nearly 100% invalidated. xD
You'll have a situation where in the future if people want to run demo mode, they're forced into waiting 16s for an time that will ultimately be noncompetitive compared to the best future RNG times.
I feel future people will complain about having to wait as well, but in an entirely different context than present us do ("Why do we need to wait for demo mode to start, when RNG runs don't have to?") opposed to now where it's just "Why are we even waiting at all?" (provided the boards aren't separated for fairness by that point).
And if in the future, RNG god run happens, and the boards are separated, and people complain about wanting to skip the 16s, and the decision is made to remove it so it's more on par with equalizing the start times to RNG, then again it just all circles back to what I've been trying to write now in how restricting it currently doesn't make any sense, present or in the future.
I think that's all I'll sum it up! I feel I can't add anything more without constantly repeating myself, and I'm really not trying to fight anyone or change anyone's minds here. I think in conclusion:
In the present -> it doesn't make any sense to restrict this, provided the boards remain the same and the manipulation isn't factored into current timing. For it to make sense to restrict this, the 16s should be added to everyone's run and be part of the run, since then it makes sense for the moderators to have this stance.
In the future -> it will create issues if the boards never change or factor in the manipulation, because you're either going to have demo mode people complaining about 16s they can't skip while RNG people can, or, no one running demo mode anymore anyway because running against RNG became the most competitive thing to do.
If running demo mode becomes a completely dead approach to this game in the future, whether that's because it's undesirable to wait 16s or running against RNG becomes the norm again, then I dunno, I don't see why in the present it again needs to be restricted as it is currently when it's not part of official SRC timing.
"But then this entire board becomes nearly 100% invalidated. xD
You'll have a situation where in the future if people want to run demo mode, they're forced into waiting 16s for an time that will ultimately be noncompetitive compared to the best future RNG times."
the entire board isn't invalidated. My time won't be invalid if someone beats it with no RNG lock
